[AfriNIC-rpd] Section 3.8 of AFPUB-2010-v4-005-draft-02 - IPv4 Soft Landing

[Owen DeLong]

On May 24, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Dr Paulos Nyirenda wrote:

> 
> On 23 May 2011 at 8:01, Owen DeLong wrote:
> 
>> I think this discussion is getting too focused on particular language. There is nothing
>> wrong with it being a "vote". However, one must recognize that it is not an election
>> or a binding vote where the outcome of the vote dictates the outcome of the process.
>> 
>> Instead, it is what is known as an "advisory vote". The outcome of the vote serves as
>> advice to the chairs to help them gauge consensus.
>> 
>> So, whether you consider it an advisory vote or a show of consensus, I really think
>> that the terms are synonymous. The important thing is to have clarity on the actual
>> meaning of the event rather than to focus on the exact terminology used to
>> describe it.
> 
> Without using so many words, determining consensus in the PDP policy is indeed different 
> from the process of voting and the two processes do not necessarily yield the same 
> outcome.

Without using so many words, my point remains:

How do you go about measuring consensus in the absence of some form of polling or
voting?

Clarifying with slightly more words:

I agree that a simple majority election yields a very different result from a community
consensus process. My point is that the question of voting here isn't about whether
or not to hold an election. I believe nobody expects that this voting is an election,
but, rather expects that the vote is advisory in nature to help the chair measure
the level of consensus.

> 
> The AfriNIC PDP is about consensus building and determination.
> 

I think this is understood, but, the question of how to determine and/or measure
consensus without such a mechanism (since you seem opposed to the
mechanism) remains unanswered.

Owen

> Regards,
> 
> Paulos
> ======================
> Dr Paulos B Nyirenda
> NIC.MW & .mw ccTLD
> http://www.registrar.mw
> 
> 
> 
> On 23 May 2011 at 8:01, Owen DeLong wrote:
> 
>> On May 23, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Mark Elkins wrote:
>> 
>>> Healthy debate! - I'm glad.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 15:14 +0200, Dr Paulos Nyirenda wrote:
>>>> On 23 May 2011 at 13:03, Mark Elkins wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> ...x ...
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've no problem with this either - unless "participation" by people not
>>>>> from the AfriNIC region allows "them" to harm "us". Maybe "they" should
>>>>> not always be invited to "show consensus" (vote)???  Ponder this a
>>>>> while.
>>>> 
>>>> If you want this then the AfriNIC PDP in AFPUB-2010-GEN-005 needs to be revised
>> because 
>>>> you really cannot do this right now and the policy says that you should not do
>> this.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Whilst I was at ARIN a few weeks ago - participating in their Policy
>>>>> discussions - I didn't always put up my hand to "show consensus" - I
>>>>> didn't always feel it appropriate. (Might be wrong - but there was no
>>>>> voting at ARIN - just a demonstration of "consensus" as a guide to the
>>>>> AC (Advisory Council))
>>>> 
>>>> If you check the you will see that the word "vote" does not appear in the AfriNIC
>> PDP. 
>>>> The  AfriNIC PDP is based on consensus and not voting. The current counting of who 
>>>> supports and who opposes is painting the wrong picture on how to implement the
>> AfriNIC 
>>>> PDP.
>>> 
>>> Yes - many (I include myself) may have a mind set of treating the "Hands
>>> up" as a vote rather than as "a Show of Consensus".
>>> 
>> 
>> I think this discussion is getting too focused on particular language. There is
>> nothing
>> wrong with it being a "vote". However, one must recognize that it is not an election
>> or a binding vote where the outcome of the vote dictates the outcome of the process.
>> 
>> Instead, it is what is known as an "advisory vote". The outcome of the vote serves as
>> advice to the chairs to help them gauge consensus.
>> 
>> So, whether you consider it an advisory vote or a show of consensus, I really think
>> that the terms are synonymous. The important thing is to have clarity on the actual
>> meaning of the event rather than to focus on the exact terminology used to
>> describe it.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> rpd at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>