[Community-Discuss] Interim order of June 14th 2022
Owen DeLong
owen at delong.com
Mon Jun 20 06:20:16 UTC 2022
To be very clear here, IMHO, AFRINIC and the AFRINIC membership and community are not the adversaries in the law suit.
As far as I am concerned, the AFRINIC board and management are the adversaries and they are so _BECAUSE_ they are acting contrary to the bylaws and against the interests of the membership and community.
Owen
> On Jun 19, 2022, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear AfriNIC's Community,
>
> Hope this email finds you in good health!
>
> Please find my comments below, inline...
>
> Le vendredi 17 juin 2022, Paul Hjul <hjul.paul at gmail.com <mailto:hjul.paul at gmail.com>> a écrit :
> I am again at a loss as to whether you are being ignorant or disingenuous. For present purposes though lets assume that what you are trying to say is "but its an interim order"
>
>
>
>
> Hi Paul,
> Thanks for your email, brother.
>
> ...while reading your numerous long emails, i still
> don't understand why you seem to essentially
> behaving in support of a rioting activity started against both this RIR & the whole INRS (Internet
> Numbers Registry System - RFC7020).
>
> BtW,
> <paste>
> "The term interim order refers to an order issued
> by a court during the pendency of the litigation.
> It is generally issued by the Court *to ensure Status
> quo*. The rationale for such orders to be issued by
> the Courts is best explained by the Latin legal
> maxim "Actus curiae neminem gravabit" which,
> translated to English, stands for "an act of the
> court shall prejudice no one". Therefore, to ensure
> that none of the interests of the parties to the
> litigation are harmed, the court may issue an
> interim order."
> </paste>
> __
> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_order#:~:text=The%20term%20interim,an%20interim%20order <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_order#:~:text=The%20term%20interim,an%20interim%20order>.
>
>
>
>
> The meaning of interim isn't really difficult.
>
>
> Right!
> Please see above, brother.
>
>
>
>
> Of relevance is that an interim order has effect.
>
>
>
> It's meant to maintain a kind of status quo; while
> trying to protect both parties.
>
>
>
>
> The website was updated since the order was granted and is updated regularly. I can understand not changing letterheads to indicate a change of something by virtue of an interim order but on the language of the order given by the Company additional rather than less caution is called for.
>
>
>
> ...i understand that, even in war times, there is a
> thing called "rules"; but, really, who usually care?
>
>
>
> Are you trying to say that because it is an interim order that it will lapse and so the Company should just wait it out? That sort of attitude is exactly what gets contempt proceedings happening and is a prime example of why Afrinic needs to stop allowing itself to be influenced by the brigade whose sentiment is to promote lawlessness.
>
>
>
>
> Paul, you wrote such a long email, after that our
> common brother replied to your email with an URI
> containing a simple definiting of a word which
> appeared in your email...
>
> How come that you reply...with such a long email,
> full of guesses? :'-(
>
>
>
>
> The fact is that right now and until the court makes a further decosopm
>
>
>
>
> You couldn't play in both sides, brother :'-(
>
> ...the opposite camp would defend against any adversary attacks; with their means, and you can
> not, really, play on behalf of your adversaries :-)
>
> And, about the purpose please, wisely choose
> your camp! i mean, it's not too late, though...
>
> "◄ Ecclesiastes 3:1 ►
> To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven:"
>
> __
> [2]: https://biblehub.com/crossref/ecclesiastes/3-1.htm#:~:text=To%20everything%20there,purpose%20under%20heaven%3A <https://biblehub.com/crossref/ecclesiastes/3-1.htm#:~:text=To%20everything%20there,purpose%20under%20heaven%3A>
>
>
>
>
> Do you really want Afrinic to function without a board that can't muster quorum for the next three months? Remember the second part of the order precludes vacancies being filled.
>
>
>
> Brother you certainly remember the story of court
> order served to prevent AfriNIC to use any of their
> bank accounts...
>
> Are you really celebrating victory before the end
> of that machiavelous war?
>
> Please, tell the rioters to don't try to *sell* this
> RIR's service region IPv4 pool for out of region
> use; before having shutdowned the RIR, *bought*
> its community and fully replaced the global INRS...
>
>
>
>
> So unless the court appoints directors you have a company of the nature of Afrinic with three directors.
>
>
>
>
> ...so! there is still a way around; as the MU's 2001 company act is not silent on that topic. But, you
> should keep in mind the spirit of *interim orders*.
>
>
>
>
> Most immediately I am trying to figure out how the Company is able to take a decision to defend the matter in a period of time during which no board meeting could be held, postponed for a day and resolved to oppose. The fact that the opposition is irrational and digs a deeper hole is a second problem, and based on the fact that of the three people one voted against the unlawful extension it will be impossible to argue that it is a rationally made and considered decision. More likely than not no actual thought, minuted and considered decision is made. But website conveys that its been decided to "resist" an application that stops the board from having somebody whose term ended from through coup keeping their spot (again the term coup is from a member of the board at the time, its not my characterization)
>
>
>
>
> Various types of coup could be orchestrated by
> an adversary party; and any curious observer, of
> AfriNIC's actual experienced challenges, might
> easily understand what is at stake and who are
> those who contribute to support what appears
> to be the really dangerous party at time...
>
>
>
>
> Even if - and there are for reasons already canvassed a lot of reasons why the argument allowing for a reduced quorum to meet is a really weak position to take - an ability under the Bylaws to convene a meeting, not have quorum and work with the reduced quorum of 3 the exercise involves postponements, minuting and all manner of opportunity to trip up. It is most probable that the meeting held after the AGMM will be set aside if anybody asks for it to be so set aside by a court - - unfortunately the minutes are not yet posted if for no other reason than the board was woefully malformed at the time of the meeting and somebody not properly on the Board was appointed vice-chair. One simple question is why should a person have to get the brazenly unlawful resolution set aside and why should the Company end up liable for those costs. The directors of the Company and its advising staff have a fiduciary duty not to waste the Company's money by litigating in support of the indefensible.
>
> Unless the three individuals who would make up the board are going to put the interests of the Company and the interests of the members ahead of some misguided rot that plagues the organization and actually sit down with legal representatives with a view to getting the Company back on track (rather than how to spend insane amounts of money on fruitless and wasteful defending the indefensible) things aren't going to get better. The membership rejected the financial statements and there are no appointed auditors.The suggestion on this list has been to relocate the company to a jurisdiction that would presumably turn a blind eye to the shanigans of the Company. As has been pointed out repeatedly in order for Afrinic to take up domicile elsewhere it would need to resolve the issues it has created for itself and remain solvent or it would have to wind up and be re-established which would mean going through an ICP-2 like process.
>
> On the other hand if the registered members step out and have their lawyers say "it was wrong for the Company to act in bad faith, we have a fiduciary responsibility to ensure that the Company not persist in courses of action that is unlawful, we would like the courts and/or members to sort out the mess" not only would many members provide the Company with considerable assistance but within a matter of days a lawful and rational path forward will be plotted together, rather than what is likely to be at least two years of continued ugliness - the sort of ugliness that hinders investment in infrastructure which is the main obstacle to increasing connectivity in Africa.
>
>
>
>
> ...i thaught that the very AfriNIC's RM which is
> pouring huge amount of money in attempting to
> destroy a non profit company which enriches it;
> would have been recognizant enough to invest
> back in building some needed open Internet
> Protocol based infrastructures accross Africa...
>
> ...and perhaps to lead IPv6 deployment accross
> AfriNIC's service region? :'-(
>
> Question: If an LIR doesn't have an ASN, isn't that
> a red signal (no BGP network) about its intent to
> deploy no single infrastructure within the region?
> :-/
>
> Anyone willing to address this *problem*, through
> the PDWG (Policy Development Working Group),
> can freely join me in co-authoring a DPP (Draft
> Policy Proposal) to be submitted soon.
>
> A normal LIR (Local Internet Registry) holding
> such a huge amount of IPv4 resources would
> have been a natural source of various investments
> within the region associated with the RIR (Regional
> Internet Registry) which allocated those Internet
> number resources. But that very AfriNIC's RM
> seems to prefer to waste its money, gained in
> exploiting (out of region) those IPv4 resources,
> to fight AfriNIC; while attempting to corrupt this
> RIR's community, the other AfriNIC's RMs and the
> entire INRS' community... :'-(
>
> ...*investing*, an apparently unlimited budget, in
> numerous litigations against a non profit, while no
> record of infrastructural investment accross that
> RIR's service region seems to exist...
>
> As i might have been wrong from the beginning...
> then, please, brother feel free to correct me.
>
> Remain blessed!
>
> Shalom,
> --sb.
>
>
>
>
> Even if they simply came out and said "the unlawful purported extension was wrong and we need the consequences of that to be sorted out" (and remember of the 4 directors . The problem quite simply is that because they know that people like you will viciously attack them if they were to do the right thing and this is the heart of the problem at Afrinic.
>
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2022 at 21:16, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2022, 17:42 Paul Hjul, <hjul.paul at gmail.com <mailto:hjul.paul at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Considering that its been a day since the order
>
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/interim <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/interim>
>
> Noah
>
>
> --
> Best Regards !
> __
> baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure <https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure>>
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