<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">To be very clear here, IMHO, AFRINIC and the AFRINIC membership and community are not the adversaries in the law suit.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As far as I am concerned, the AFRINIC board and management are the adversaries and they are so _BECAUSE_ they are acting contrary to the bylaws and against the interests of the membership and community.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 19, 2022, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" class="">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">Dear AfriNIC's Community,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hope this email finds you in good health!<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please find my comments below, inline...<br class=""><br class="">Le vendredi 17 juin 2022, Paul Hjul <<a href="mailto:hjul.paul@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">hjul.paul@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">I am again at a loss as to whether you are being ignorant or disingenuous. For present purposes though lets assume that what you are trying to say is "but its an interim order"<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hi Paul,</div><div class="">Thanks for your email, brother.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...while reading your numerous long emails, i still</div><div class=""> don't understand why you seem to essentially </div><div class="">behaving in support of a rioting activity started against both this RIR & the whole INRS (Internet </div><div class="">Numbers Registry System - RFC7020).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">BtW, </div><div class=""><paste></div><div class="">"The term interim order refers to an order issued </div><div class="">by a court during the pendency of the litigation. </div><div class="">It is generally issued by the Court *to ensure Status</div><div class=""> quo*. The rationale for such orders to be issued by</div><div class=""> the Courts is best explained by the Latin legal </div><div class="">maxim "Actus curiae neminem gravabit" which, </div><div class="">translated to English, stands for "an act of the </div><div class="">court shall prejudice no one". Therefore, to ensure</div><div class=""> that none of the interests of the parties to the </div><div class="">litigation are harmed, the court may issue an </div><div class="">interim order." <br class=""></div><div class=""></paste></div><div class="">__</div><div class="">[1]: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_order#:~:text=The%20term%20interim,an%20interim%20order" target="_blank" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr class="">Interim_order#:~:text=The%20te<wbr class="">rm%20interim,an%20interim%20or<wbr class="">der</a>.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The meaning of interim isn't really difficult. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Right!</div><div class="">Please see above, brother.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of relevance is that an interim order has effect. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It's meant to maintain a kind of status quo; while</div><div class="">trying to protect both parties.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The website was updated since the order was granted and is updated regularly. I can understand not changing letterheads to indicate a change of something by virtue of an interim order but on the language of the order given by the Company additional rather than less caution is called for. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...i understand that, even in war times, there is a </div><div class="">thing called "rules"; but, really, who usually care? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Are you trying to say that because it is an interim order that it will lapse and so the Company should just wait it out? That sort of attitude is exactly what gets contempt proceedings happening and is a prime example of why Afrinic needs to stop allowing itself to be influenced by the brigade whose sentiment is to promote lawlessness. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Paul, you wrote such a long email, after that our </div><div class="">common brother replied to your email with an URI</div><div class="">containing a simple definiting of a word which <br class=""></div><div class="">appeared in your email...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">How come that you reply...with such a long email, </div><div class="">full of guesses? :'-(</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The fact is that right now and until the court makes a further decosopm</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You couldn't play in both sides, brother :'-(</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...the opposite camp would defend against any adversary attacks; with their means, and you can</div><div class=""> not, really, play on behalf of your adversaries :-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And, about the purpose please, wisely choose </div><div class="">your camp! i mean, it's not too late, though...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">"◄ Ecclesiastes 3:1 ►<br class="">
To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven:"</p><p dir="ltr" class="">
__<br class="">
[2]: <a href="https://biblehub.com/crossref/ecclesiastes/3-1.htm#:~:text=To%20everything%20there,purpose%20under%20heaven%3A" target="_blank" class="">https://biblehub.com/crossref/<wbr class="">ecclesiastes/3-1.htm#:~:text=T<wbr class="">o%20everything%20there,purpose<wbr class="">%20under%20heaven%3A</a></p></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Do you really want Afrinic to function without a board that can't muster quorum for the next three months? Remember the second part of the order precludes vacancies being filled. </div><div class=""> <br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Brother you certainly remember the story of court</div><div class=""> order served to prevent AfriNIC to use any of their</div><div class="">bank accounts...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Are you really celebrating victory before the end </div><div class="">of that machiavelous war? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please, tell the rioters to don't try to *sell* this </div><div class="">RIR's service region IPv4 pool for out of region </div><div class="">use; before having shutdowned the RIR, *bought* </div><div class="">its community and fully replaced the global INRS...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So unless the court appoints directors you have a company of the nature of Afrinic with three directors. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...so! there is still a way around; as the MU's 2001 company act is not silent on that topic. But, you </div><div class="">should keep in mind the spirit of *interim orders*.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Most immediately I am trying to figure out how the Company is able to take a decision to defend the matter in a period of time during which no board meeting could be held, postponed for a day and resolved to oppose. The fact that the opposition is irrational and digs a deeper hole is a second problem, and based on the fact that of the three people one voted against the unlawful extension it will be impossible to argue that it is a rationally made and considered decision. More likely than not no actual thought, minuted and considered decision is made. But website conveys that its been decided to "resist" an application that stops the board from having somebody whose term ended from through coup keeping their spot (again the term coup is from a member of the board at the time, its not my characterization)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Various types of coup could be orchestrated by </div><div class="">an adversary party; and any curious observer, of</div><div class=""> AfriNIC's actual experienced challenges, might </div><div class="">easily understand what is at stake and who are </div><div class="">those who contribute to support what appears </div><div class="">to be the really dangerous party at time...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Even if - and there are for reasons already canvassed a lot of reasons why the argument allowing for a reduced quorum to meet is a really weak position to take - an ability under the Bylaws to convene a meeting, not have quorum and work with the reduced quorum of 3 the exercise involves postponements, minuting and all manner of opportunity to trip up. It is most probable that the meeting held after the AGMM will be set aside if anybody asks for it to be so set aside by a court - - unfortunately the minutes are not yet posted if for no other reason than the board was woefully malformed at the time of the meeting and somebody not properly on the Board was appointed vice-chair. One simple question is why should a person have to get the brazenly unlawful resolution set aside and why should the Company end up liable for those costs. The directors of the Company and its advising staff have a fiduciary duty not to waste the Company's money by litigating in support of the indefensible.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Unless the three individuals who would make up the board are going to put the interests of the Company and the interests of the members ahead of some misguided rot that plagues the organization and actually sit down with legal representatives with a view to getting the Company back on track (rather than how to spend insane amounts of money on fruitless and wasteful defending the indefensible) things aren't going to get better. The membership rejected the financial statements and there are no appointed auditors.The suggestion on this list has been to relocate the company to a jurisdiction that would presumably turn a blind eye to the shanigans of the Company. As has been pointed out repeatedly in order for Afrinic to take up domicile elsewhere it would need to resolve the issues it has created for itself and remain solvent or it would have to wind up and be re-established which would mean going through an ICP-2 like process.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On the other hand if the registered members step out and have their lawyers say "it was wrong for the Company to act in bad faith, we have a fiduciary responsibility to ensure that the Company not persist in courses of action that is unlawful, we would like the courts and/or members to sort out the mess" not only would many members provide the Company with considerable assistance but within a matter of days a lawful and rational path forward will be plotted together, rather than what is likely to be at least two years of continued ugliness - the sort of ugliness that hinders investment in infrastructure which is the main obstacle to increasing connectivity in Africa. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...i thaught that the very AfriNIC's RM which is </div><div class="">pouring huge amount of money in attempting to</div><div class=""> destroy a non profit company which enriches it;</div><div class=""> would have been recognizant enough to invest </div><div class="">back in building some needed open Internet </div><div class="">Protocol based infrastructures accross Africa...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...and perhaps to lead IPv6 deployment accross </div><div class="">AfriNIC's service region? :'-(</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Question: If an LIR doesn't have an ASN, isn't that </div><div class="">a red signal (no BGP network) about its intent to </div><div class="">deploy no single infrastructure within the region? </div><div class="">:-/</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Anyone willing to address this *problem*, through </div><div class="">the PDWG (Policy Development Working Group), </div><div class="">can freely join me in co-authoring a DPP (Draft </div><div class="">Policy Proposal) to be submitted soon.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A normal LIR (Local Internet Registry) holding </div><div class="">such a huge amount of IPv4 resources would </div><div class="">have been a natural source of various investments</div><div class="">within the region associated with the RIR (Regional</div><div class=""> Internet Registry) which allocated those Internet </div><div class="">number resources. But that very AfriNIC's RM </div><div class="">seems to prefer to waste its money, gained in </div><div class="">exploiting (out of region) those IPv4 resources, </div><div class="">to fight AfriNIC; while attempting to corrupt this </div><div class="">RIR's community, the other AfriNIC's RMs and the </div><div class="">entire INRS' community... :'-(</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">...*investing*, an apparently unlimited budget, in </div><div class="">numerous litigations against a non profit, while no</div><div class=""> record of infrastructural investment accross that </div><div class="">RIR's service region seems to exist...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">As i might have been wrong from the beginning...</div><div class="">then, please, brother feel free to correct me.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Remain blessed!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Shalom,</div><div class="">--sb.</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Even if they simply came out and said "the unlawful purported extension was wrong and we need the consequences of that to be sorted out" (and remember of the 4 directors . The problem quite simply is that because they know that people like you will viciously attack them if they were to do the right thing and this is the heart of the problem at Afrinic.</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 16 Jun 2022 at 21:16, Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank" class="">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 16 Jun 2022, 17:42 Paul Hjul, <<a href="mailto:hjul.paul@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">hjul.paul@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">Considering that its been a day since the order</div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""> </div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto" class=""><a href="https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/interim" target="_blank" class="">https://dictionary.cambridge.o<wbr class="">rg/dictionary/english/interim</a></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Noah</div></div>
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</div><br class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><p class="">Best Regards !<br class="">__<br class="">baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<<a href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure" class="">https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure</a>><br class="">Subscribe to Mailing List: <<a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" class="">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br class="">__<br class="">#LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! #Amen!»<br class="">#MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement<br class="">«Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)<br class=""><br class=""></p>
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