[Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[Antone Ubah]

Oh Noah,

'Afraid' you say? Of what? Of whom? What are my stakes? What are your
stakes?
There is an ongoing legal process between parties involved, am I wrong? If
anyone or group has input to that, is it not right to funnel such down the
appropriate channels?


Or are you the arm behind the puppets? The grand puppeteer popping up
characters to incite friction.🤔

Then again, what are your stakes?


Lili is free to air his/her/their views, however it makes sense to do it
right, not for commotion sake.


Regards,

Anthony

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 8:00 AM Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:


>

>

> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, 14:51 Anthony Ubah, <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com> wrote:

>

>> Didin't comms at afrinic.net already close this thread?

>>

>> Here's another bait email trolling the community.

>>

>

> Let Lili Au speak. What are you afraid of?

>

> Comms dont have the authority to close any thread.

>

> They only cautioned on violation of CoC.

>

> Noah

>

>>

>> *Best Regards,*

>>

>> *Anthony*

>>

>>

>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 5:45 AM Lili Au <au8692936 at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>> A funny discussion. Anyway, I saw many LOA that is CI authorise LARUS (

>>> a Hong Kong company too) then LARUS authorise to their clients. Leo is

>>> correct.

>>>

>>> —

>>>

>>> > Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz>於2021年7月27日 15:32寫道：

>>> >

>>> > Hi,

>>> >

>>> > did any of those make any commitment like "we are using these to

>>> connect

>>> > our customers in Africa" ?

>>> >

>>> > Did CI?

>>> >

>>> > Thanks,

>>> > Frank

>>> >

>>> > PS: I count connectivity to a VM hosted by CI as ok, but not leasing

>>> > just the IP to an entity without providing them any connectivity.

>>> >

>>> >> On 27/07/2021 08:24, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote:

>>> >> If you think this is a shocking amount of address space, please

>>> consider

>>> >> the amount of space

>>> >> held by:

>>> >>

>>> >> Non-LIRs (end users):

>>> >> Hewlett Packard

>>> >> Apple Computer

>>> >>

>>> >> Unclear whether to classify as LIR or not:

>>> >> Amateur Radio (AMPR)

>>> >>

>>> >> LIRs:

>>> >> XFINITY/Comcast

>>> >> Verizon

>>> >> Akamai

>>> >> XO Communications

>>> >> Amazon

>>> >> Microsoft

>>> >> Google

>>> >> etc.

>>> >>

>>> >> The equivalent of 1.5 /10s (75% of a /9) is far less than any of the

>>> >> above organizations.

>>> >>

>>> >> Owen

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>> On Jul 26, 2021, at 01:11 , Leo S <leoso at afcast.com

>>> >>> <mailto:leoso at afcast.com>> wrote:

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Hi Ronald

>>> >>> Maybe your number is correct, whether it is 6.3M or 7M,This is a

>>> >>> shocking number for everyone especially in 201x such a large block

>>> >>> allocated. This is not in 199x year.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:25 AM Ronald F. Guilmette

>>> >>> <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>> wrote:

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    In message

>>> >>>    <

>>> CALm9Cbn+R9oen9+9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg at mail.gmail.com

>>> <mailto:

>>> CALm9Cbn%2BR9oen9%2B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg at mail.gmail.com>>

>>> >>>    Meriem Dayday <meriemdayday at gmail.com

>>> >>>    <mailto:meriemdayday at gmail.com>> wrote:

>>> >>>

>>> >>>> This is a direct violation of the CoC.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    No, actually, it isn't.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    The information about how Cloud Innovation is presently making

>>> use of

>>> >>>    it's assigned 6,291,456 AFRINIC-administered IPv4 addresses is

>>> >>>    effectively

>>> >>>    public information, and it is not difficult to derive from any

>>> >>>    number of

>>> >>>    public sources (e.g. RIPEStat, bgp.he.net <http://bgp.he.net/>,

>>> etc.)

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    If you lived in the time of Galileo Galilei, would you consider

>>> it an

>>> >>>    affront to public decency if some people elected to look through

>>> the

>>> >>>    telescope and then just describe what they saw?  And if so, then

>>> what

>>> >>>    is next?  Book burning?

>>> >>>

>>> >>>> Disclosing such information and data without the company's

>>> >>>    consent is a

>>> >>>> clear attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences on the

>>> >>>> concerned person.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    OK, let's parse that statement, because it conjoins two different

>>> >>>    obvious

>>> >>>    logical problems.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    First, the Internet is *not* a private network.  Fact's about what

>>> >>>    various

>>> >>>    companies are doing on the Internet are possible to see, and to

>>> learn,

>>> >>>    without needing the consent of the companies inolved.  That is the

>>> >>>    nature

>>> >>>    of the Internet.  If you want to run your own closed private

>>> intranet,

>>> >>>    then go head.  Nobody will stop you and you can then keep every

>>> last

>>> >>>    detail of your corporate operations utterly secret.  But the

>>> >>>    minute any

>>> >>>    company obtains Internet number resources and starts using those,

>>> it

>>> >>>    *voluntarily* gives up some of its corporate secrecy in exchange

>>> >>>    for being

>>> >>>    a part of, and a participant on this great communications

>>> >>>    experiment we

>>> >>>    call the Internet.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    I personally am not now, and never have been a customer of Cloud

>>> >>>    Innovation.

>>> >>>    And yet even well before today I already determined for myself

>>> >>>    that well

>>> >>>    more that 90% of Cloud Innovation's assigned AFRINIC-administered

>>> IPv4

>>> >>>    address space was being deployed to other continents.  This is not

>>> >>>    a state

>>> >>>    secret by any means, and the information may be derived from 100%

>>> >>>    public

>>> >>>    sources.  Anyone clever enough to seek it out will find the same

>>> >>>    information.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    Whether the manner in which Cloud Innovation is using/deploying

>>> its

>>> >>>    assigned number resources does or does not comport with its

>>> specific

>>> >>>    RSA and/or with community approved regulations is a separate

>>> question,

>>> >>>    and one which I myself do not have an answer to.  In any case, the

>>> >>>    courts will sort out those questions in due course, I imagine.

>>> >>>    But the

>>> >>>    mere facts of how Cloud Innovation has deployed its

>>> AFRINIC-assigned

>>> >>>    resources, or how it would appear to make money, based on the

>>> >>>    available

>>> >>>    public evidence, are *not* corporate secrets.  Any attempt to

>>> portray

>>> >>>    them as such is just an attempt at heavy-handed censorship.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    The second logical problem with the statement above is contained

>>> >>>    in the

>>> >>>    part that says "... attempt of defamation and can have legal

>>> >>>    consequences

>>> >>>    on the concerned person."

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    Exactly so!  If the guy who posted the material you are reacting

>>> >>>    to was

>>> >>>    willing to take the legal risk to post that material, IN SPITE OF

>>> the

>>> >>>    possibility that he could, at least in theory, be sued for

>>> defamation,

>>> >>>    then why are YOU worried about it?  Why should AFRINIC be worried

>>> >>>    about

>>> >>>    it?  Obviously, this (theoretical) possibility of a defemation

>>> lawsuit

>>> >>>    is only a problem for the guy who posted the (allegedly)

>>> defamatory

>>> >>>    text, and he obviiously was willing to take the risk in order to

>>> >>>    express

>>> >>>    his opinion, SO WHAT IS THAT TO YOU?

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    Here again, shouting down in the original poster in this manner

>>> >>>    appears

>>> >>>    to me to be just another a heavy-handed attempt at pointless

>>> >>>    censorship.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    I hope that we here can all have open and frank discusions of all

>>> >>>    of the

>>> >>>    issues now of concern to AFRINIC without these kinds of attempts

>>> to

>>> >>>    muzzle dissenting viewpoints based on perfectly silly arguments.

>>> >>>

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    Regards,

>>> >>>    rfg

>>> >>>

>>> >>>    _______________________________________________

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