<div dir="auto">Oh Noah,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">'Afraid' you say? Of what? Of whom? What are my stakes? What are your stakes?</div><div dir="auto">There is an ongoing legal process between parties involved, am I wrong? If anyone or group has input to that, is it not right to funnel such down the appropriate channels?</div><div dir="auto"><br><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Or are you the arm behind the puppets? The grand puppeteer popping up characters to incite friction.🤔</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Then again, what are your stakes?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Lili is free to air his/her/their views, however it makes sense to do it right, not for commotion sake.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Regards,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Anthony</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 8:00 AM Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, 14:51 Anthony Ubah, <<a href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Didin't <a href="mailto:comms@afrinic.net" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(26,115,232);overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;outline:none;font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">comms@afrinic.net</a> already close this thread? <div><br></div><div>Here's another bait email trolling the community.<br></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Let Lili Au speak. What are you afraid of?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Comms dont have the authority to close any thread.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">They only cautioned on violation of CoC.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Noah</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="line-height:150%"><b style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px"><span style="line-height:150%"><font face="garamond, serif">Best Regards,</font></span></b></p><p style="line-height:150%"><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif"><b><span style="line-height:150%;font-size:12.8px"><span style="line-height:150%">Anthony</span></span></b><br></font></p></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 5:45 AM Lili Au <<a href="mailto:au8692936@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">au8692936@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">A funny discussion. Anyway, I saw many LOA that is CI authorise LARUS ( a Hong Kong company too) then LARUS authorise to their clients. Leo is correct.<br>
<br>
—<br>
<br>
> Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>>於2021年7月27日 15:32寫道：<br>
> <br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> did any of those make any commitment like "we are using these to connect<br>
> our customers in Africa" ?<br>
> <br>
> Did CI?<br>
> <br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Frank<br>
> <br>
> PS: I count connectivity to a VM hosted by CI as ok, but not leasing<br>
> just the IP to an entity without providing them any connectivity.<br>
> <br>
>> On 27/07/2021 08:24, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote:<br>
>> If you think this is a shocking amount of address space, please consider<br>
>> the amount of space<br>
>> held by:<br>
>> <br>
>> Non-LIRs (end users):<br>
>> Hewlett Packard<br>
>> Apple Computer<br>
>> <br>
>> Unclear whether to classify as LIR or not:<br>
>> Amateur Radio (AMPR)<br>
>> <br>
>> LIRs:<br>
>> XFINITY/Comcast<br>
>> Verizon<br>
>> Akamai<br>
>> XO Communications<br>
>> Amazon<br>
>> Microsoft<br>
>> Google<br>
>> etc.<br>
>> <br>
>> The equivalent of 1.5 /10s (75% of a /9) is far less than any of the<br>
>> above organizations.<br>
>> <br>
>> Owen<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>>> On Jul 26, 2021, at 01:11 , Leo S <<a href="mailto:leoso@afcast.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">leoso@afcast.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:leoso@afcast.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">leoso@afcast.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Hi Ronald<br>
>>> Maybe your number is correct, whether it is 6.3M or 7M,This is a<br>
>>> shocking number for everyone especially in 201x such a large block<br>
>>> allocated. This is not in 199x year.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:25 AM Ronald F. Guilmette<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> In message<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:CALm9Cbn%2BR9oen9%2B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">CALm9Cbn+R9oen9+9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:CALm9Cbn%252BR9oen9%252B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">CALm9Cbn%2BR9oen9%2B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg@mail.gmail.com</a>>><br>
>>> Meriem Dayday <<a href="mailto:meriemdayday@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">meriemdayday@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:meriemdayday@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">meriemdayday@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>>> This is a direct violation of the CoC.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> No, actually, it isn't.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> The information about how Cloud Innovation is presently making use of<br>
>>> it's assigned 6,291,456 AFRINIC-administered IPv4 addresses is<br>
>>> effectively<br>
>>> public information, and it is not difficult to derive from any<br>
>>> number of<br>
>>> public sources (e.g. RIPEStat, <a href="http://bgp.he.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bgp.he.net</a> <<a href="http://bgp.he.net/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://bgp.he.net/</a>>, etc.)<br>
>>> <br>
>>> If you lived in the time of Galileo Galilei, would you consider it an<br>
>>> affront to public decency if some people elected to look through the<br>
>>> telescope and then just describe what they saw? And if so, then what<br>
>>> is next? Book burning?<br>
>>> <br>
>>>> Disclosing such information and data without the company's<br>
>>> consent is a<br>
>>>> clear attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences on the<br>
>>>> concerned person.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> OK, let's parse that statement, because it conjoins two different<br>
>>> obvious<br>
>>> logical problems.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> First, the Internet is *not* a private network. Fact's about what<br>
>>> various<br>
>>> companies are doing on the Internet are possible to see, and to learn,<br>
>>> without needing the consent of the companies inolved. That is the<br>
>>> nature<br>
>>> of the Internet. If you want to run your own closed private intranet,<br>
>>> then go head. Nobody will stop you and you can then keep every last<br>
>>> detail of your corporate operations utterly secret. But the<br>
>>> minute any<br>
>>> company obtains Internet number resources and starts using those, it<br>
>>> *voluntarily* gives up some of its corporate secrecy in exchange<br>
>>> for being<br>
>>> a part of, and a participant on this great communications<br>
>>> experiment we<br>
>>> call the Internet.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I personally am not now, and never have been a customer of Cloud<br>
>>> Innovation.<br>
>>> And yet even well before today I already determined for myself<br>
>>> that well<br>
>>> more that 90% of Cloud Innovation's assigned AFRINIC-administered IPv4<br>
>>> address space was being deployed to other continents. This is not<br>
>>> a state<br>
>>> secret by any means, and the information may be derived from 100%<br>
>>> public<br>
>>> sources. Anyone clever enough to seek it out will find the same<br>
>>> information.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Whether the manner in which Cloud Innovation is using/deploying its<br>
>>> assigned number resources does or does not comport with its specific<br>
>>> RSA and/or with community approved regulations is a separate question,<br>
>>> and one which I myself do not have an answer to. In any case, the<br>
>>> courts will sort out those questions in due course, I imagine. <br>
>>> But the<br>
>>> mere facts of how Cloud Innovation has deployed its AFRINIC-assigned<br>
>>> resources, or how it would appear to make money, based on the<br>
>>> available<br>
>>> public evidence, are *not* corporate secrets. Any attempt to portray<br>
>>> them as such is just an attempt at heavy-handed censorship.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> The second logical problem with the statement above is contained<br>
>>> in the<br>
>>> part that says "... attempt of defamation and can have legal<br>
>>> consequences<br>
>>> on the concerned person."<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Exactly so! If the guy who posted the material you are reacting<br>
>>> to was<br>
>>> willing to take the legal risk to post that material, IN SPITE OF the<br>
>>> possibility that he could, at least in theory, be sued for defamation,<br>
>>> then why are YOU worried about it? Why should AFRINIC be worried<br>
>>> about<br>
>>> it? Obviously, this (theoretical) possibility of a defemation lawsuit<br>
>>> is only a problem for the guy who posted the (allegedly) defamatory<br>
>>> text, and he obviiously was willing to take the risk in order to<br>
>>> express<br>
>>> his opinion, SO WHAT IS THAT TO YOU?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Here again, shouting down in the original poster in this manner<br>
>>> appears<br>
>>> to me to be just another a heavy-handed attempt at pointless<br>
>>> censorship.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I hope that we here can all have open and frank discusions of all<br>
>>> of the<br>
>>> issues now of concern to AFRINIC without these kinds of attempts to<br>
>>> muzzle dissenting viewpoints based on perfectly silly arguments.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> Regards,<br>
>>> rfg<br>
>>> <br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>>> <<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>><br>
>>> <br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote></div>