[Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[Sylvain Baya]

Dear AfriNIC's Community,

Please see my comments below, inline...

Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a écrit :


>

>

> On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Dear AfriNIC's Community,

>

> Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <

> community-discuss at afrinic.net> a écrit :

>

>>

>>

>>>

>>>> [...]

>>>

>>>

>>>

>> You’re not answering the question I asked…

>>

>>

> Hi Owen,

> Thanks for your email, brother!

>

>

>

>> What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing

>> addresses without providing connectivity

>> services is not?

>>

>>

> ...you might have forgotten about a simple notion,

> called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has

>  been refered out there as *Reservations*.

>

>

> I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation.

>

>

Hi Owen,
Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother.

...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually
use to call your team to support your personal  interpretation of the facts?

Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion.

...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/



>

> We are talking about deployment on an actual

> host connected to the internet for legitimate use.

>

>


...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother?

For what it's worth, in order to lease community's
ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first;
 otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come
to the Registration Service to request the needed
INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it:
those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's
service region...they would save a lot of money
comparing to what could be otherwise payed to
an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*...
...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet
Registry) but all are LIRs (Local
Internet Registries) established/approved to serve
their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the
whole AfriNIC's service
region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking.



>

> The difference… The only difference… Is that the

> connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the addresses.

>

>

...if...then, please see above!

You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the
notion of valid assignments
and SAW.

...icymi, please see here:
<https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013424.html>

copy -> paste:

~°~
<tl;dr>
Yes! i took the responsibility to bring the CPM section 5.5 | IPv4 LIR/ISP
Allocations (5.5.1 Allocation policies and guidelines) to you, in case it
might have been a too hard task to go it the location of that content.
Please accept to read it...

...i did it with the naive expectation that it
could help the PDWG to move forward
on some recuring topics, such as
Internet number resources (at least for
IPv4 types) utilisation and responsibilities
thereof, within the AfriNIC's service region.

Therefore permit me to recommend the following subventions to your
particular attention:

¿°?
• 5.5.1.1.3 If an LIR plans to exchange or transfer address space, it needs
to contact AFRINIC so that the changes are properly registered.
• 5.5.1.2.3 Must show an existing efficient utilization of IP addresses
from their upstream provider.
• 5.5.1.3 Slow start mechanism for first allocations
• 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of
all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid
assignments and/or sub-allocations.
• 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or
sub-allocations.
• 5.5.1.7 Documentation
• 5.5.1.8 Network infrastructure (of LIR) vs End-User networks
• 5.5.1.9 Utilisation
• 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported
• 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment
• 5.5.1.13 Sub-Allocation Window (SAW)
• 5.5.1.13.1 A sub-allocation window (SAW) refers to the maximum number of
IPv4 addresses that the LIR may sub-allocate to the end-users without
seeking approval from AFRINIC.
• 5.5.1.13.2 AFRINIC will review sub-allocation made by the LIR's using
their SAW to ensure that policies are followed correctly.
• 5.5.1.13.3 Below are a few guidelines for the SAW:
• 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping by LIRs
¿°?

Please let me know if it was a bad initiative :-/

Thanks.
</tl;dr>

Source: <https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#lir-isp-allocation>
~°~




> Please read again the CPM at section 5:

>

> ~°~

> [...]

> • 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of

> all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid

> assignments and/or sub-allocations.

> • 5.5.1.4.2 *Reservations* are not considered as valid assignments or

> sub-allocations.

> [...]

> ~°~

>

>

> Yep… that’s not a prohibition on valid assignment and/or sub allocation

> independent of

> connectivity services, that’s a prohibition of addresses not being

> attached to hosts.

>

>


...don't divide/separate the tools, please.
It's not allowed. The implementers use it all:
Bylaws+RSA+CPM to the good of the AfriNIC's
service region.
Do you want to change something?
...you know how to try!



>

> It’s simply not prohibited anywhere in policy.

>>

>>

> Are you serious?

>

> ...going further, along with what i wrote above, note

> that *conservation* is not valid, that appears to be

> the best description of leasing...of INRs.

>

>

> Nope… It’s not a good description at all. Reservations (as prohibited in

> 5.5.1.4.2) refers

>



...i'm already convinced it is!
You shall accept it as is :-)
Do you want to change it?


to addresses set aside for later use…Addresses not currently assigned to

> active hosts.

>

>

...your words, mine :-/

CPM section 5.5.1.4.2 says:

~°~
5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or
sub-allocations.

It may be useful for internal aggregation to keep some IP blocks free for
future growth. These internal reservations are however not counted as valid
usage and must be assigned or sub-allocated before requesting for
additional allocation.
~°~

...my understanding of *reservation* include yours.
Hence, there are other possibilities. You can not
change that. Feel free to try with other tactics...




> Such is not the case with leasing. With leasing, the addresses are

> assigned to hosts active

> on the internet, but the hosts may be getting their connectivity from a

> different provider than

> they are getting the addresses from.

>



This is not a practice allowed within the AfriNIC's
service region , you should understand it...but feel
free to keep your business logic...describing it as
you want, will not change what it is in reality...

CPM sections 5.5.1.10 & 5.5.1.11 say:

~°~
5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported

End-users are not permitted to reserve address space based on long term
plans. This violates the goal of conservation and fragments the address
space when initial forecasts are not met. If an LIR wants to assign address
space for customers, it must make the assignments from any unallocated or
unassigned address space it currently holds. For the purposes evaluating
allocation requests, space reserved by an LIR for other customers is
considered unused.

5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment

Assignments remain valid as long as the original criteria on which the
assignment was based are still in place and the assignment is registered in
the AFRINIC database. An assignment is therefore invalid if it is not
registered in the database and if the purpose for which it was registered
has changed or no longer holds.
~°~

...yes! again: *the purpose* [1] coupled with
the RSA section 4(c)(i), to not say all the full
section 4. titled: *Conditions of service*.
__
[1]: <
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html>




>

> Those who are charged to implement the CPM have

>  indicated the same. Could you, please, show us

> where the CPM allows it?

>

>

> If they have indicated this, then they are simply in error as that is not

> what it actually says.

> I have not noticed AFRINIC staff referring to this section as prohibiting

> leasing, but perhaps

> their reference escaped me at some point.

>

> It does not need to be specifically permitted. That which is not

> prohibited is permitted implicitly.

>

>

...permitted where?

Have you tried to put Bylaws+RSA+CPM together?

Please try, then come back with your results.


Unless there is an explicit requirement in the CPM that hosts receive

> connectivity services from

> the same provider which provides their addresses, then independent

> assignment is inherently

> permitted and this is the current state.

>

>

...the current course is otherwise, and you know it.

Again, when there is an established RIR, to serve LIRs and End-Users within
its own service region...
it's by definition the responsibility of the latters to
serve their local end-users, if applicable...i'm ready
to agree if you point me to any section of the CPM,
the Bylaws or the RSA where it's clearly stated that
AfriNIC shall allocate/assign INRs to GIRs (*Global* Internet Registries)
or *Global* End-Users.

As long as there is no mention of the existence of
GIRs within the AfriNIC service region, you shall
understand that out-of-region assignments or
sub-allocations could not be the normal trend...

...i'm awaiting :-/




> I hope you now understand the difference between a reservation (holding

> unused addresses,

>



You expect me to understand what?

...please see above and get my answer from there.




> such as what Seacom and many others are doing) vs. providing addresses

> that are actually

> in use, but not simultaneously providing transit or transport services.

>

>

...don't mix problems, do fill your complain
appropriately, please, and the community
shall address it usual.

Thanks to stop your divertion! but you are free
to continue to support some wrong doings...

Have a blessed monday!

Shalom,
--sb.




> Owen

>

>

> Shalom,

> --sb.

>

>

>>

>> Or wait... I can not find this so-called LIR *Cloud Innovation Limited* with

>>> offices in Seychelles using this BGP tool.

>>>

>>>

>>> *https://bgp.he.net/country/SC <https://bgp.he.net/country/SC>*

>>>

>>

>> And?

>>

> [...]

>>

>

>


-- 
--

Best Regards !
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