[Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

94cm4n . ezekielj20 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 3 20:21:29 UTC 2019


Sorry I meant to post to the community-discuss.

Jehovahseun

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 9:18 PM 94cm4n ., <ezekielj20 at gmail.com> wrote:


>

> Dear Caleb,

> I think Taiwo decided not to respond to you cos just like your questions

> to all the PDP chair candidates in Kampala (in which none of them responded

> too),it does not worth a reply. However i think I can dignify you with a

> response so that you don't think too much as to why people don't respond to

> you and start thinking too much of the fact that it seams you live in

> another planet.

> First of all, you don't work for Afrinic and not the spokespersons for

> AFRINIC.

> Secondly, Taiwo didn't talk about the fellows and you went off point.

> Third, you did not include that fact that some of the mentors appointed

> by AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the fellows to push their

> polices and agenda. Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows

> via the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the

> PDP chair.

> @ Heleen and other fellows? is this not True.

> AFRINIC fellows were used by some to achieve thier aim. There is a

> serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in

> appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided

> access to the candidates for the PDP chair under guise of being an ex

> fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about

> WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day.

>

> Regards

> Jehovahseun

>

> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 8:56 PM , <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:

>

>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to

>> rpd at afrinic.net

>>

>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>> rpd-request at afrinic.net

>>

>> You can reach the person managing the list at

>> rpd-owner at afrinic.net

>>

>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."

>>

>>

>> Today's Topics:

>>

>> 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> (Taiwo Oyewande)

>> 2. Re: RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 (afia faith)

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 1

>> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:21:54 +0100

>> From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>

>> To: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke

>> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net

>> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> Message-ID: <F620E652-527E-483E-A40F-38411D42BE62 at gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

>>

>> @hellen.

>>

>> Thank you for you insight. Please can you attach a copy of the summary

>> given to you to help new intakes get up to speed. - this is what I

>> encourage and hope AFRINIC can give to new comers and hopefully distribute

>> in the new comers session- .

>>

>> @ caleb

>> ..........

>>

>> Sent from my iPhone

>>

>> > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote:

>> >

>> > Taiwo,

>> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting

>> in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that

>> we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also

>> had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite

>> discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and

>> contributing to policy discussions.

>> > Regards,

>> > Hellen

>> >

>> >

>> >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:

>> >> Hi all,

>> >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the

>> >> policies to be discussed.

>> >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students

>> >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new

>> >> members who are fresh in the policy development process.

>> >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the

>> >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every

>> >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.

>> >> Cheers.

>> >> Taiwo O

>> >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston

>> >>> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

>> >>>> Wafa,

>> >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out

>> >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also

>> >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the

>> >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things

>> >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in

>> >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the

>> >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and

>> >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.

>> >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am

>> >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also

>> >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?

>> >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I

>> >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but

>> >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of

>> >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not

>> >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care

>> >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we

>> >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.

>> >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening

>> >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF

>> >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL

>> >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___

>> >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money

>> >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say

>> >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to

>> >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the

>> >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent

>> >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be

>> >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it

>> >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we

>> >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization

>> >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation

>> >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the

>> >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.

>> >>>> That is called hypocrisy.

>> >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with

>> >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and

>> >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I

>> >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the

>> >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,

>> >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t

>> >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was

>> >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see

>> >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we

>> >>>> don?t like the individual doing it?

>> >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear

>> >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I

>> >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front

>> >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I

>> >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is

>> >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his

>> >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on

>> >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same

>> >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I

>> >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if

>> >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position

>> >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great

>> >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it

>> >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.

>> >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their

>> >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby

>> >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people

>> >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for

>> >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic

>> >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their

>> >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.

>> >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?

>> >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here

>> >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on

>> >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and

>> >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to

>> >>>> do with the content or the policy.

>> >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite

>> >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu

>> >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the

>> >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that

>> >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for

>> >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I

>> >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve

>> >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own

>> >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at

>> >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal

>> >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.

>> >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact

>> >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left

>> >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.

>> >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?

>> >>>> and

>> >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_

>> >>>> Thanks

>> >>>> Andrew

>> >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>

>> >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30

>> >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net

>> >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> >>>> Hi

>> >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus

>> >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in

>> >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC

>> >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:

>> >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg

>> >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation

>> >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG

>> >>>> participants interventions on the proposals.

>> >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these

>> >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at

>> >>>> the PPM and after....

>> >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual

>> >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to

>> >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions

>> >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of

>> >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.

>> >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also

>> >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

>> >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough

>> >>>> consensus process.

>> >>>> Section 6

>> >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough

>> >>>> consensus.

>> >>>> Section 7

>> >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be

>> >>>> rough consensus

>> >>>> My African fellows,

>> >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process

>> >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was

>> >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand

>> >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made

>> >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..

>> >>>> The real education package is as below:

>> >>>> =====

>> >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC

>> >>

>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997

>> >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)

>> >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf

>> >>>> AFRINIC constitution

>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws

>> >>>> Registration Service Agreement

>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa

>> >>>> AFRINIC policy manual

>> >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual

>> >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM

>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre

>> >>>> AFRINIC PDP

>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy

>> >>>> Rough Consensus

>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282

>> >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals

>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

>> >>>> RiRs PDPs

>> >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/

>> >>>> RIR comparative policy overview

>> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/

>> >>>> ==============

>> >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

>> >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans.

>> >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,

>> >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of

>> >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I

>> >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.

>> >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of

>> >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid

>> >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must

>> >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of

>> >>>> conduct.

>> >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet

>> >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy

>> >>>> development process and operations.

>> >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________

>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >>> --

>> >>> VIVIEN

>> >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED

>> >>> p:+852 29888918

>> >>> f:+852 29888368

>> >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net

>> >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1]

>> >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

>> >>> _______________________________________________

>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >> Links:

>> >> ------

>> >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/

>> >> _______________________________________________

>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > b

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 2

>> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:47 +0100

>> From: afia faith <faithafia at gmail.com>

>> To: rpd at afrinic.net

>> Subject: Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40

>> Message-ID:

>> <

>> CAAp+Vo2xe8id4pPVVctYFRcBtaodTeFowckYw32xo5OktDpeLA at mail.gmail.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>>

>> Taiwo,

>> Yes all the fellows are members of the RPD mailists so they knew what

>> happened during PDP day. Yes we do 'discuss' policies within Afrinic

>> Fellowship program but no we do not tell fellows what to say, they are in

>> charge of their own opinion. Sorry,my name is Afi and i was the returning

>> fellow for AFRINIC30.

>> Thank you.

>>

>> Best,

>> Afi Edoh

>> Systems & Network Engineer/UN IGF MAG Member

>> AFRINIC-27 l AfriSIG 2018 l AU-CIEFFA AMBASSADOR

>> Mobile: (+228)91760238/ (+233) 540837065-WhatSapp

>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/afiedoh/> l Skype:afia.faith l

>> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/afia.edo> l Twitter

>> <https://twitter.com/afiafaith> l Website

>> <http://www.afrotribune.com>

>>

>> *we live once so live right*

>>

>>

>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 8:19 PM <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:

>>

>> > Send RPD mailing list submissions to

>> > rpd at afrinic.net

>> >

>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>> > rpd-request at afrinic.net

>> >

>> > You can reach the person managing the list at

>> > rpd-owner at afrinic.net

>> >

>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>> > than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."

>> >

>> >

>> > Today's Topics:

>> >

>> > 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> > (hkariuki at isoc.or.ke)

>> > 2. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> > (Taiwo Oyewande)

>> >

>> >

>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >

>> > Message: 1

>> > Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:35:00 +0300

>> > From: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke

>> > To: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>

>> > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net

>> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> > Message-ID: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd at isoc.or.ke>

>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

>> >

>> > Taiwo,

>> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in

>> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that

>> > we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We

>> > also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and

>> > onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue

>> > learning and contributing to policy discussions.

>> > Regards,

>> > Hellen

>> >

>> >

>> > On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:

>> > > Hi all,

>> > >

>> > > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the

>> > > policies to be discussed.

>> > >

>> > > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students

>> > > included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new

>> > > members who are fresh in the policy development process.

>> > >

>> > > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the

>> > > foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every

>> > > meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.

>> > >

>> > > Cheers.

>> > >

>> > > Taiwo O

>> > >

>> > >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston

>> > >> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

>> > >>

>> > >>> Wafa,

>> > >>>

>> > >>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out

>> > >>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also

>> > >>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the

>> > >>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things

>> > >>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in

>> > >>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the

>> > >>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and

>> > >>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.

>> > >>>

>> > >>>

>> > >>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am

>> > >>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also

>> > >>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?

>> > >>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I

>> > >>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but

>> > >>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of

>> > >>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not

>> > >>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care

>> > >>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we

>> > >>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening

>> > >>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF

>> > >>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL

>> > >>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money

>> > >>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say

>> > >>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to

>> > >>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the

>> > >>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent

>> > >>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be

>> > >>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it

>> > >>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we

>> > >>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization

>> > >>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation

>> > >>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the

>> > >>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.

>> > >>> That is called hypocrisy.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with

>> > >>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and

>> > >>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I

>> > >>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the

>> > >>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,

>> > >>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t

>> > >>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was

>> > >>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see

>> > >>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we

>> > >>> don?t like the individual doing it?

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear

>> > >>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I

>> > >>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front

>> > >>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I

>> > >>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is

>> > >>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his

>> > >>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on

>> > >>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same

>> > >>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I

>> > >>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if

>> > >>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position

>> > >>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great

>> > >>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it

>> > >>> through the silencing of the rights of others.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their

>> > >>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby

>> > >>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people

>> > >>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for

>> > >>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic

>> > >>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their

>> > >>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.

>> > >>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?

>> > >>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here

>> > >>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on

>> > >>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and

>> > >>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to

>> > >>> do with the content or the policy.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite

>> > >>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu

>> > >>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the

>> > >>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that

>> > >>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for

>> > >>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I

>> > >>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve

>> > >>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own

>> > >>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at

>> > >>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal

>> > >>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact

>> > >>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left

>> > >>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?

>> > >>> and

>> > >>>

>> > >>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Thanks

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Andrew

>> > >>>

>> > >>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>

>> > >>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30

>> > >>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> > >>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net

>> > >>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Hi

>> > >>>

>> > >>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus

>> > >>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in

>> > >>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC

>> > >>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg

>> > >>>

>> > >>>

>> > >>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation

>> > >>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG

>> > >>> participants interventions on the proposals.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these

>> > >>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at

>> > >>> the PPM and after....

>> > >>>

>> > >>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual

>> > >>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to

>> > >>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions

>> > >>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of

>> > >>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.

>> > >>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also

>> > >>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough

>> > >>> consensus process.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Section 6

>> > >>>

>> > >>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough

>> > >>> consensus.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Section 7

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be

>> > >>> rough consensus

>> > >>>

>> > >>> My African fellows,

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process

>> > >>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was

>> > >>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand

>> > >>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made

>> > >>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..

>> > >>>

>> > >>> The real education package is as below:

>> > >>>

>> > >>> =====

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC

>> > >>>

>> > >>>

>> > >>

>> > >

>> >

>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997

>> > >>>

>> > >>>

>> > >>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf

>> > >>>

>> > >>> AFRINIC constitution

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Registration Service Agreement

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa

>> > >>>

>> > >>> AFRINIC policy manual

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual

>> > >>>

>> > >>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre

>> > >>>

>> > >>> AFRINIC PDP

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Rough Consensus

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282

>> > >>>

>> > >>> AFRINIC current policy proposals

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

>> > >>>

>> > >>> RiRs PDPs

>> > >>>

>> > >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/

>> > >>>

>> > >>> RIR comparative policy overview

>> > >>>

>> > >>>

>> > >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/

>> > >>>

>> > >>>

>> > >>> ==============

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> Come build African Internet by Africans.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,

>> > >>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of

>> > >>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I

>> > >>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of

>> > >>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid

>> > >>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must

>> > >>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of

>> > >>> conduct.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet

>> > >>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy

>> > >>> development process and operations.

>> > >>>

>> > >>> -Wafa _______________________________________________

>> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> > >>

>> > >> --

>> > >>

>> > >> VIVIEN

>> > >> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED

>> > >> p:+852 29888918

>> > >> f:+852 29888368

>> > >> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net

>> > >> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1]

>> > >> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

>> > >

>> > >> _______________________________________________

>> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > Links:

>> > > ------

>> > > [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/

>> > > _______________________________________________

>> > > Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > b

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > ------------------------------

>> >

>> > Message: 2

>> > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:17:38 +0100

>> > From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>

>> > To: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke

>> > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net

>> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> > Message-ID: <906C337A-852D-4857-B7F5-1CD39205112F at gmail.com>

>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

>> >

>> > @

>> >

>> > Sent from my iPhone

>> >

>> > > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote:

>> > >

>> > > Taiwo,

>> > > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting

>> in

>> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm

>> that we

>> > were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also

>> > had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite

>> > discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and

>> > contributing to policy discussions.

>> > > Regards,

>> > > Hellen

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:

>> > >> Hi all,

>> > >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the

>> > >> policies to be discussed.

>> > >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students

>> > >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new

>> > >> members who are fresh in the policy development process.

>> > >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the

>> > >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before

>> every

>> > >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.

>> > >> Cheers.

>> > >> Taiwo O

>> > >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston

>> > >>> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

>> > >>>> Wafa,

>> > >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out

>> > >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also

>> > >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the

>> > >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things

>> > >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in

>> > >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the

>> > >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and

>> > >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.

>> > >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am

>> > >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also

>> > >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?

>> > >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I

>> > >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but

>> > >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of

>> > >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not

>> > >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care

>> > >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we

>> > >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.

>> > >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening

>> > >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF

>> > >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL

>> > >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___

>> > >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money

>> > >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say

>> > >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to

>> > >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the

>> > >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent

>> > >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be

>> > >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it

>> > >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we

>> > >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization

>> > >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation

>> > >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the

>> > >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.

>> > >>>> That is called hypocrisy.

>> > >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with

>> > >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and

>> > >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I

>> > >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the

>> > >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,

>> > >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t

>> > >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was

>> > >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see

>> > >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we

>> > >>>> don?t like the individual doing it?

>> > >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear

>> > >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I

>> > >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front

>> > >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I

>> > >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is

>> > >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his

>> > >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on

>> > >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same

>> > >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I

>> > >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if

>> > >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position

>> > >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great

>> > >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it

>> > >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.

>> > >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their

>> > >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby

>> > >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people

>> > >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for

>> > >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic

>> > >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their

>> > >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.

>> > >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?

>> > >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here

>> > >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on

>> > >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and

>> > >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to

>> > >>>> do with the content or the policy.

>> > >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite

>> > >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu

>> > >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the

>> > >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that

>> > >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for

>> > >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I

>> > >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve

>> > >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own

>> > >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at

>> > >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal

>> > >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.

>> > >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact

>> > >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left

>> > >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.

>> > >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?

>> > >>>> and

>> > >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_

>> > >>>> Thanks

>> > >>>> Andrew

>> > >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>

>> > >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30

>> > >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net

>> > >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net

>> > >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship

>> > >>>> Hi

>> > >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus

>> > >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in

>> > >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC

>> > >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:

>> > >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg

>> > >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation

>> > >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG

>> > >>>> participants interventions on the proposals.

>> > >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these

>> > >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at

>> > >>>> the PPM and after....

>> > >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual

>> > >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to

>> > >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions

>> > >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of

>> > >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.

>> > >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also

>> > >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.

>> > >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough

>> > >>>> consensus process.

>> > >>>> Section 6

>> > >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough

>> > >>>> consensus.

>> > >>>> Section 7

>> > >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be

>> > >>>> rough consensus

>> > >>>> My African fellows,

>> > >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process

>> > >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was

>> > >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand

>> > >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made

>> > >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..

>> > >>>> The real education package is as below:

>> > >>>> =====

>> > >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC

>> > >>

>> >

>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997

>> > >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)

>> > >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf

>> > >>>> AFRINIC constitution

>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws

>> > >>>> Registration Service Agreement

>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa

>> > >>>> AFRINIC policy manual

>> > >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual

>> > >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM

>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre

>> > >>>> AFRINIC PDP

>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy

>> > >>>> Rough Consensus

>> > >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282

>> > >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals

>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals

>> > >>>> RiRs PDPs

>> > >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/

>> > >>>> RIR comparative policy overview

>> > >>>

>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/

>> > >>>> ==============

>> > >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.

>> > >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans.

>> > >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,

>> > >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of

>> > >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I

>> > >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.

>> > >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of

>> > >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid

>> > >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must

>> > >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of

>> > >>>> conduct.

>> > >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet

>> > >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy

>> > >>>> development process and operations.

>> > >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________

>> > >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> > >>> --

>> > >>> VIVIEN

>> > >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED

>> > >>> p:+852 29888918

>> > >>> f:+852 29888368

>> > >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net

>> > >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1]

>> > >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR

>> > >>> _______________________________________________

>> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> > >> Links:

>> > >> ------

>> > >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/

>> > >> _______________________________________________

>> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > b

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > ------------------------------

>> >

>> > Subject: Digest Footer

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > RPD mailing list

>> > RPD at afrinic.net

>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>> >

>> >

>> > ------------------------------

>> >

>> > End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40

>> > ************************************

>> >

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>> _______________________________________________

>> RPD mailing list

>> RPD at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

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>> ------------------------------

>>

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