<div dir="ltr"><div>Taiwo,</div><div>Yes all the fellows are members of the RPD mailists so they knew what happened during PDP day. Yes we do 'discuss' policies within Afrinic Fellowship program but no we do not tell fellows what to say, they are in charge of their own opinion. Sorry,my name is Afi and i was the returning fellow for AFRINIC30.<br></div><div>Thank you.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best, <br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)">Afi Edoh</span></font></span><div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)">Systems & Network Engineer/UN IGF MAG Member</span></font></span></div><div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)">AFRINIC-27 l AfriSIG 2018 l AU-CIEFFA AMBASSADOR<br></span></font></span></div><div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)">Mobile: (+228)91760238/ (+233) 540837065-WhatSapp</span></font></span></div><div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/afiedoh/" title="https://twitter.com/yakanho" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></span></font></span><font size="2"> l Skype:afia.faith l <a href="https://www.facebook.com/afia.edo" target="_blank">Facebook</a> l <a href="https://twitter.com/afiafaith" target="_blank">Twitter</a> l </font><span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)"><a href="http://www.afrotribune.com" target="_blank">Website <br></a></span></font></span></span></div><div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)"><br></span></font></span></div><div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(53,28,117)"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif"><b><i>we live once so live right</i></b></span></span><br></span></font></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 8:19 PM <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship<br>
(<a href="mailto:hkariuki@isoc.or.ke" target="_blank">hkariuki@isoc.or.ke</a>)<br>
2. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship<br>
(Taiwo Oyewande)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:35:00 +0300<br>
From: <a href="mailto:hkariuki@isoc.or.ke" target="_blank">hkariuki@isoc.or.ke</a><br>
To: Taiwo Oyewande <<a href="mailto:taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com" target="_blank">taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>, <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke" target="_blank">20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Taiwo,<br>
I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in <br>
Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that <br>
we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We <br>
also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and <br>
onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue <br>
learning and contributing to policy discussions.<br>
Regards,<br>
Hellen<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:<br>
> Hi all,<br>
> <br>
> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the<br>
> policies to be discussed.<br>
> <br>
> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students<br>
> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new<br>
> members who are fresh in the policy development process.<br>
> <br>
> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the<br>
> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every<br>
> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.<br>
> <br>
> Cheers.<br>
> <br>
> Taiwo O<br>
> <br>
>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>>> Wafa,<br>
>>> <br>
>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out<br>
>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also<br>
>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the<br>
>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things<br>
>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in<br>
>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the<br>
>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and<br>
>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am<br>
>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also<br>
>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?<br>
>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I<br>
>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but<br>
>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of<br>
>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not<br>
>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care<br>
>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we<br>
>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening<br>
>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF<br>
>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL<br>
>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money<br>
>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say<br>
>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to<br>
>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the<br>
>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent<br>
>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be<br>
>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it<br>
>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we<br>
>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization<br>
>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation<br>
>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the<br>
>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.<br>
>>> That is called hypocrisy.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with<br>
>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and<br>
>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I<br>
>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the<br>
>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,<br>
>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t<br>
>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was<br>
>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see<br>
>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we<br>
>>> don?t like the individual doing it?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear<br>
>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I<br>
>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front<br>
>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I<br>
>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is<br>
>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his<br>
>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on<br>
>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same<br>
>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I<br>
>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if<br>
>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position<br>
>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great<br>
>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it<br>
>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their<br>
>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby<br>
>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people<br>
>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for<br>
>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic<br>
>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their<br>
>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.<br>
>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?<br>
>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here<br>
>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on<br>
>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and<br>
>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to<br>
>>> do with the content or the policy.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite<br>
>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu<br>
>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the<br>
>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that<br>
>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for<br>
>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I<br>
>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve<br>
>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own<br>
>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at<br>
>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal<br>
>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact<br>
>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left<br>
>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?<br>
>>> and<br>
>>> <br>
>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Thanks<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Andrew<br>
>>> <br>
>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <<a href="mailto:wafa@ati.tn" target="_blank">wafa@ati.tn</a>><br>
>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30<br>
>>> TO: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>> CC: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Hi<br>
>>> <br>
>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus<br>
>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in<br>
>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC<br>
>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation<br>
>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG<br>
>>> participants interventions on the proposals.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these<br>
>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at<br>
>>> the PPM and after....<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual<br>
>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to<br>
>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions<br>
>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of<br>
>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.<br>
>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also<br>
>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough<br>
>>> consensus process.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Section 6<br>
>>> <br>
>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough<br>
>>> consensus.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Section 7<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be<br>
>>> rough consensus<br>
>>> <br>
>>> My African fellows,<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process<br>
>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was<br>
>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand<br>
>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made<br>
>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..<br>
>>> <br>
>>> The real education package is as below:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> =====<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
> <a href="http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> AFRINIC constitution<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> Registration Service Agreement<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> AFRINIC policy manual<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> AFRINIC PDP<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> Rough Consensus<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> RiRs PDPs<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <a href="https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> RIR comparative policy overview<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <a href="https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> ==============<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Come build African Internet by Africans.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,<br>
>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of<br>
>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I<br>
>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of<br>
>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid<br>
>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must<br>
>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of<br>
>>> conduct.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet<br>
>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy<br>
>>> development process and operations.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> <br>
>> --<br>
>> <br>
>> VIVIEN<br>
>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED<br>
>> p:+852 29888918<br>
>> f:+852 29888368<br>
>> <a href="mailto:e%3Aa.v.p@laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">e:a.v.p@laruscloudservice.net</a><br>
>> w:<a href="http://laruscloudservice.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">laruscloudservice.net/</a> [1]<br>
>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR<br>
> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Links:<br>
> ------<br>
> [1] <a href="http://laruscloudservice.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://laruscloudservice.net/</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
b<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:17:38 +0100<br>
From: Taiwo Oyewande <<a href="mailto:taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com" target="_blank">taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:hkariuki@isoc.or.ke" target="_blank">hkariuki@isoc.or.ke</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>, <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:906C337A-852D-4857-B7F5-1CD39205112F@gmail.com" target="_blank">906C337A-852D-4857-B7F5-1CD39205112F@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
@<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
> On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, <a href="mailto:hkariuki@isoc.or.ke" target="_blank">hkariuki@isoc.or.ke</a> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Taiwo,<br>
> I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and contributing to policy discussions.<br>
> Regards,<br>
> Hellen<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:<br>
>> Hi all,<br>
>> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the<br>
>> policies to be discussed.<br>
>> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students<br>
>> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new<br>
>> members who are fresh in the policy development process.<br>
>> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the<br>
>> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every<br>
>> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.<br>
>> Cheers.<br>
>> Taiwo O<br>
>>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> Wafa,<br>
>>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out<br>
>>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also<br>
>>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the<br>
>>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things<br>
>>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in<br>
>>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the<br>
>>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and<br>
>>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.<br>
>>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am<br>
>>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also<br>
>>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?<br>
>>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I<br>
>>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but<br>
>>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of<br>
>>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not<br>
>>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care<br>
>>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we<br>
>>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.<br>
>>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening<br>
>>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF<br>
>>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL<br>
>>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___<br>
>>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money<br>
>>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say<br>
>>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to<br>
>>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the<br>
>>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent<br>
>>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be<br>
>>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it<br>
>>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we<br>
>>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization<br>
>>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation<br>
>>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the<br>
>>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.<br>
>>>> That is called hypocrisy.<br>
>>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with<br>
>>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and<br>
>>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I<br>
>>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the<br>
>>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,<br>
>>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t<br>
>>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was<br>
>>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see<br>
>>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we<br>
>>>> don?t like the individual doing it?<br>
>>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear<br>
>>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I<br>
>>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front<br>
>>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I<br>
>>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is<br>
>>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his<br>
>>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on<br>
>>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same<br>
>>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I<br>
>>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if<br>
>>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position<br>
>>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great<br>
>>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it<br>
>>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.<br>
>>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their<br>
>>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby<br>
>>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people<br>
>>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for<br>
>>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic<br>
>>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their<br>
>>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.<br>
>>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?<br>
>>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here<br>
>>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on<br>
>>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and<br>
>>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to<br>
>>>> do with the content or the policy.<br>
>>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite<br>
>>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu<br>
>>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the<br>
>>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that<br>
>>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for<br>
>>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I<br>
>>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve<br>
>>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own<br>
>>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at<br>
>>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal<br>
>>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.<br>
>>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact<br>
>>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left<br>
>>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.<br>
>>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?<br>
>>>> and<br>
>>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_<br>
>>>> Thanks<br>
>>>> Andrew<br>
>>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <<a href="mailto:wafa@ati.tn" target="_blank">wafa@ati.tn</a>><br>
>>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30<br>
>>>> TO: <a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>>> CC: <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship<br>
>>>> Hi<br>
>>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus<br>
>>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in<br>
>>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC<br>
>>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg</a><br>
>>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation<br>
>>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG<br>
>>>> participants interventions on the proposals.<br>
>>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these<br>
>>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at<br>
>>>> the PPM and after....<br>
>>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual<br>
>>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to<br>
>>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions<br>
>>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of<br>
>>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.<br>
>>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also<br>
>>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.<br>
>>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough<br>
>>>> consensus process.<br>
>>>> Section 6<br>
>>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough<br>
>>>> consensus.<br>
>>>> Section 7<br>
>>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be<br>
>>>> rough consensus<br>
>>>> My African fellows,<br>
>>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process<br>
>>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was<br>
>>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand<br>
>>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made<br>
>>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..<br>
>>>> The real education package is as below:<br>
>>>> =====<br>
>>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC<br>
>> <a href="http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997</a><br>
>>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf</a><br>
>>>> AFRINIC constitution<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws</a><br>
>>>> Registration Service Agreement<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa</a><br>
>>>> AFRINIC policy manual<br>
>>>> <a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual</a><br>
>>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre</a><br>
>>>> AFRINIC PDP<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy</a><br>
>>>> Rough Consensus<br>
>>>> <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282</a><br>
>>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals</a><br>
>>>> RiRs PDPs<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/</a><br>
>>>> RIR comparative policy overview<br>
>>> <a href="https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/</a><br>
>>>> ==============<br>
>>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.<br>
>>>> Come build African Internet by Africans.<br>
>>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,<br>
>>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of<br>
>>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I<br>
>>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.<br>
>>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of<br>
>>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid<br>
>>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must<br>
>>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of<br>
>>>> conduct.<br>
>>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet<br>
>>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy<br>
>>>> development process and operations.<br>
>>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> VIVIEN<br>
>>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED<br>
>>> p:+852 29888918<br>
>>> f:+852 29888368<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:e%3Aa.v.p@laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">e:a.v.p@laruscloudservice.net</a><br>
>>> w:<a href="http://laruscloudservice.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">laruscloudservice.net/</a> [1]<br>
>>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
>> Links:<br>
>> ------<br>
>> [1] <a href="http://laruscloudservice.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://laruscloudservice.net/</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
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End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40<br>
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