[rpd] AFRINIC PDWG Co-Chair Selection Timeframe

Thu Apr 28 13:32:00 UTC 2022

Hi please see inline

Le mar. 26 avr. 2022 à 15:32, Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com> a
écrit :

> Dear Arnaud
> Why do we need a PDWG, if who matters are resource holders. I will
> advocate all other persons vacate the membership of the PDWG and allow the
> resource holders do what they like and how they like
>
> However,  if PDWG is a stakeholder arrangement,  then we must give
> everyone an equal footing. Let us stop being Hitlers here.
>
> Simply,
> Daniel
>
>
>
Hmmmm… Hitler?
His Majesty, Please let not go there. Extremism never built  a good
society.

I never said  that only the ressources members matter

iCP-2  principle (2)  is clear on the importance of the ressource members
in the  « raison d’être »  of a RIR and the bylaws accepted and defined
the roles and prerogatives of each stakeholder.

I prefer a publicly endorsed  co-chair by Resources members to a rogue and
conflicted co-chair serving hidden agenda and third party motives.

Why  is this a big issue when the  final selection of the co-chairs is made
by the WG?

Arnaud

>
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022, 12:07 Arnaud AMELINA, <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hummm ! my comments inline
>>
>> Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <
>> oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng> a écrit :
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>>
>>> I have tried as much as possible not to make a comment but it seems I
>>> have to comment on this as I would also be making a comment on the other
>>> impunity the board leadership have decided to plunge AFRINIC into recently.
>>> 1.  This timeline is not acceptable because I don't know how Co-chairs
>>> would emerge via the use of the mailing list.
>>>
>>
>> We keep repeating ourselves.
>>
>> You do know how Policy discussions and decisions are made on the ML, but
>> somehow you do not know how the selection of Co-chairs to take on the
>> administrative  support role of the Working Group, happens on the same
>> mailinglist.
>>
>>
>>> It was tried last time what we ended up having are impostors.
>>>
>>
>> Impostors ?  These two interim co-chairs are respectable community
>> members with proven reputation and expertise who have done a great service
>> so far and  I am sure, WG participants would want them to continue.
>>
>>
>>> Two people who claimed they emerged as consensus candidates when some
>>> others on the mailing did not agree.  I see no consensus in the process.
>>>
>>
>> Looks like you still have a problem with understanding “consensus”
>>
>> Do “objections” mean de facto ”no consensus”?
>>
>>
>>>   Then I object to criteria J. I see no reason for this.
>>> Endorsement from resource members shows some form of affiliation.
>>>
>>
>> Affiliation to who?  Resource members are the main stakeholders here,
>> accountable to the global community.
>>
>> The community has witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before who were supposed
>> to be participating as individuals without motives.
>>
>>
>>> co-chairs are not expected to be endorsed this way.
>>>
>>
>> Who says so ?  Even though resources members are also part of the
>> community, they are the direct affected parties by policies and decisions
>> made by the PDP.
>>
>> As a known and well organised stakeholders, I see nothing wrong with them
>> endorsing co-chairs or even endorsing draft policy proposals.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> @OWEN: I hope i am not eligible to be a board member yet
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> AK
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Arnaud
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen DeLong via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 , Daniel Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Sylvain,
>>>>
>>>> You answered my questions,  we can do things when and how we like it.
>>>> It clearly also shows that we can interpret laws and rules at our whims and
>>>> caprices.
>>>>
>>>> As I can see the spirit of the letters of the CPM does not matter
>>>> anymore.
>>>>
>>>> The world is a jungle indeed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With beliefs like this, you are now eligible to be a member of the
>>>> AFRINIC board.
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>> Simply,
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain Baya, <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear PDWG,
>>>>> Hope this email finds you in good health!
>>>>>
>>>>> Please see my comments below, inline...
>>>>>
>>>>> Le vendredi 22 avril 2022, Daniel I. Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
>>>>> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>> Thanks for your email, brother!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Have we amended the process of selecting/nominating/electing
>>>>>> Co-Chairs now?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Please process are you refering to?
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember that we had agreed that the procedure
>>>>> available to replace PDWG's Chairs is very open;
>>>>> and it's not seems to be a bug in the actual version
>>>>>  (1.6) of the PDP [1].
>>>>> __
>>>>> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process>
>>>>>
>>>>> As you know, the appropriate words are: *choose*,
>>>>> *nominate*, *select*, *selection*; and each of those
>>>>>  correspond to a particular situation about PDWG
>>>>> Chairs' tenure and replacement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, in case of a replacement after a full
>>>>> mandate, the appropriate term is: "*nominate*
>>>>> during the PPM". Is it preventing the PDWG to do
>>>>> whatever it see fit before the PPM; in order to
>>>>> ensure itself that the *nomination* is successfully
>>>>> conducted during the up coming PPM?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the question!
>>>>>
>>>>> <paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>>>>> 3.3  The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG)
>>>>>
>>>>> The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) discusses the proposals.
>>>>> Anyone may participate via the Internet or in person. PDWG work is carried
>>>>> out through the Resource Policy Discussion mailing list (
>>>>> rpd at afrinic.net) and the bi-annual AFRINIC Public Policy Meetings
>>>>> (PPM). Any person, participating either in person or remotely, is
>>>>> considered to be part of the Policy Development Working Group.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Policy Development Working Group has two Chairs to perform its
>>>>> administrative functions. The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC
>>>>> community during the Public Policy Meeting and serve staggered two-year
>>>>> terms. The term ends during the first Public Policy Meeting corresponding
>>>>> to the end of the term for which they were appointed. A term may begin or
>>>>> end no sooner than the first day of the Public Policy Meeting and no later
>>>>> than the last day of the Public Policy Meeting as determined by the mutual
>>>>> agreement of the current Chair and the new Chair.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the Working Group Chair is unable to serve his or her full term,
>>>>> the Working Group may select a replacement to serve the remainder of the
>>>>> term. If the Working Group Chairs are unable to attend the Public Policy
>>>>> Meeting, the Working Group shall nominate a Chair for the session. Anyone
>>>>> present at the meeting, whether in person or by remote participation, may
>>>>> participate in the selection process for a temporary Chair.
>>>>> </paste_CPM_section_3.3>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because the proposed activities and timeline looks extremely strange
>>>>>> to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Please, could you elaborate on what you see as
>>>>> strange?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> However, if I am missing something, please can i be referred to the
>>>>>> reviewed (new) document that says we can now select/nominate/elect
>>>>>> co-chairs on the mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's clearly not about a formal document/DPP :-/
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you want, feel free to propose a DPP to
>>>>> clarify what appeares to be void into the running
>>>>>  version of the CPM.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...i agree that the *nomination* is done during the
>>>>>  PPM, per CPM section 3.3, but what's preventing
>>>>> the PDWG to consensually prepare its success
>>>>> beforehand? It's exactely what's happening right
>>>>> now, imho!
>>>>> Please, see also early comment above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone like me is beginning to loose interest
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ...i understand your say, and i sympatize, brother;
>>>>> but i don't think it's actually the case.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's rather a PDP flexibility which allows the PDWG
>>>>> to consensually and freely do things that could ameliorate its
>>>>> difficult conditions...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  with us conducting our activities without a standing guide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't like that, still, interesting flexibility,
>>>>> imho! then i encourage you to submit a DPP.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Clarifications on  is important and urgent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ...i hope this clarifies something!
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, i thank the Policy Liaison Team for the
>>>>> welcomed support provided to the PDWG to
>>>>> guarantee a soft transition to a new PDWG's Chair.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shalom,
>>>>> --sb.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Simply,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>> On 21/04/2022 19:08, AFRINIC Policy Liaison wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Dear PDWG,*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *[...]*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards !
>>>>> __
>>>>> baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure>
>>>>> Subscribe to Mailing List: <
>>>>> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>>>>> __
>>>>> #‎LASAINTEBIBLE‬|#‎Romains15‬:33«Que LE ‪#‎DIEU‬ de ‪#‎Paix‬ soit avec
>>>>> vous tous! ‪#‎Amen‬!»
>>>>> ‪#‎MaPrière‬ est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement‬
>>>>> «Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme
>>>>> soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)
>>>>>
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