[rpd] Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.

[Mirriam]

  Hello Arnaud,

That's exactly how I see it,

[Translation of your email below]

I will try to answer all your propaganda messages broadcast on the lists as best as I can by summarizing them in a few words.Denial, defamation, insults, disinformation ...

Denial: because you spend your time denying all the evidence presented by the different statements made by the contributors on these lists, who have more understanding than you in the field, or you are denying it on purpose.

Defamation: if my understanding of this term is correct, you are lying on behalf of the Board, which I am sure based on the advice of its lawyers to make decisions, it is an old strategy known to shock public opinion members of the community in order to oppose them to their Board, that will fail, not to say that, until then, you have failed.

Outrage: you spend your time denigrating the leaders and staff of Afrinic all this to shock the public, old strategy too, that's why I invited you to respect them because it is the community that has them designated to defend their interests, it is not because your client has problems that you are going to attack them in this way.

Misinformation: you also use the principle of fake news to convey your opinion, your understanding of things as a reality, that too is known, it is an old strategy used by the colonists against the natives. You make believe that the resources were not claimed as property by your client then all I see is the opposite. If he understood that these resources were not his property, he would not have taken the risk of selling them outside the Africa region. If he intended to use them in Africa he would have taken an ASN, which is not his case, to camouflage his package.

You have an often very erroneous interpretation of the realities of the African ecosystem and of our texts that you think you can manipulate as you wish, if it is on the basis of your reasoning that your clients take legal action I am afraid that 'they will go straight into the wall is my personal opinion.

So my dear Owen, don't think that you have infused science, you are not a scholar whose opinions have to be taken as reality.
Arnaud

Owen'sLibel and slander claims of intentionally and knowingly assertingfalse statements to harm Afrinic's reputation and continuouscharacter assassination of the Board is acting with actual malice andit's outrageous.




Mirriam.


    On Tue Jul 27 2021 10:37:56 GMT+0300 (EAT), Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Je vais essayer de répondre à tous tes messages de propagande diffuser sur les listes dubmieux que je peux en les résumant avec quelques mots. 
Déni, diffamation, outrages, désinformations ... 
Déni : parce que tu passes ton temps à nier toutes les évidences présentées par les différentes déclarations faites par les contributeurs sur ces listes, qui ont plus de compréhension que toi dans le domain, ou bien tu fais exprès de nier. 
Diffamation : si ma compréhension est bonne de ce terme, tu ments sur le compte du Board, qui j'en suis sûr ce base sur les conseils de ses juristes pour prendre des décisions, c'est une vielle stratégie connue pour choquer l'opinion des membres de la communauté afin de les opposer à leur Board, ça échouera, pour ne pas dire que, jusque là tu as échoué. 
Outrage: tu passes ton temps à dénigrer les dirigeants et staff d'Afrinic tout ça pour choquer l'opinion, vielle stratégie aussi, c'est pour ça que je t'ai invité à les respecter car c'est la communauté qui les a désigné pour défendre ses intérêts, ce n'est pas parce que ton client a des problèmes que tu vas les agresser de la sorte. 
Désinformations : tu utilises aussi le principe de fakenews pour faire passer ton opinion, ta compréhension des choses comme une réalité, ça aussi c'est connu, c'est une vieille stratégie utilisée par les colons contre les indigènes. Tu fais croire que les ressources n'ont pas été réclamées comme propriété par ton client alors tout ce que je constate c'est le contraire. S'il a compris que ces ressources n'étaient pas sa propriété, il n'aurait pas pris le risque des les vendre à l'extérieur de la région Afrique. S'il avait l'intention de les utiliser en Afrique il aurait pris un ASN, ce qui n'est pas son cas, pour bien camoufler son forfait. 
Tu as une interprétation souvent très erronées des réalités de l'écosystème africain et de nos textes que penses pouvoir manipuler à ta guise, si c'est sur la base de tes raisonnements que tes clients font des actions en justices j'ai bien peur qu'ils irront droit dans le mur c'est mon opinion personnelle. 
Donc mon Cher Owen, ne pense pas que tu détiens la science infuse, tu n'es pas un érudit dont on doit prendre les opinions comme réalité. 
--Arnaud 

Le mar. 27 juil. 2021 à 01:11, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a écrit :

There are lots of legitimate uses of IP addresses without having your own unique ASN.
The current board is one of the least transparent and least responsible in AFRINIC history.
They have utterly failed to read the governing documents as written, instead clinging to some belief systemthat is not supported by the governing documents. They have allowed a CEO to remain in his position afterviolating a court order putting them in a position of potentially being convicted of contempt of court.
They have insisted on carrying out an irresponsible war against a resource member based on their utterinability to read their own governing documents as written.
If these so-called “lawless capitalists” are so lawless, then why is it that they are not the ones facingpotential criminal charges? If they are so lawless, why are the courts granting their every requestand rejecting AFRINIC’s opposition at virtually every turn?
Indeed, I would say that I have it exactly correct in calling this board irresponsible and I also have itright about who is and is not following the law.
So, stop disrespecting those who oppose you and look beyond your ad hominem attacks and yourblind faith that the rules say what you want them to say and actually consider what is truly writtenin the CPM, bylaws, and RSA.
I do not believe I have disrespected anyone beyond making factual accusations about theirbehavior. If you consider my factual accusations about certain behaviors to be disrespectful, thendoesn’t that say more about the behaviors themselves than about my accusations?
Owen


On Jul 24, 2021, at 01:46 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
Cher Owen,
Je pense que tu te trompe de cible en terme d'irresponsabilité. Ceux qui étaient au board au moment où Le Board aurait autorisé la remise de plusieurs millions d'adresses IP à une entreprise qui n'a même pas jugé utile d'avoir un ASN, sont les vrais irresponsables et ils se connaissent. Le Board actuel est l'un des plus responsable qu'on est eu. Car ils se battent pour la souveraineté des ressources africaines qui ont été capturé par un groupe de capitalistes sans foi ni loi qui ne pensent qu'à leur intérêt personnel soutenus par quelques frères africains corrompus.
C'est ça la réalité, donc arrête tes insinuations et cesses de dénigrer et de manquer du respect à notre équipe du Board. C'est un comportement de Colon que tu es entrain d'avoir. Don  arrête ça tu peut défendre ton client sans manquer du respect à ceux que la communauté à désigné pour défendre ses intérêts.
À bon entendeur salut !
--Arnaud 
Le sam. 24 juil. 2021 à 03:44, Owen DeLong via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> a écrit :

There’s a big difference between taking away the toys/weapons an irresponsible teenager already has (though I’mnot sure that’s necessarily a bad idea at this point) and hading them new deadly weapons.
This proposal seeks to hand them a new weapon with far greater and more damaging effect than any of the toolspresently in their hands.
Sure, we should look for ways to take away the BB guns, but handing them a Howitzer still remains irresponsible.
The board can’t ratify this proposal if we never send it to them.
Owen


On Jul 23, 2021, at 13:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:
Should we then cancel all the CPM parts can be used in bad faith or wrongly? We need a policy proposal for that. And then the Board can decide not to ratify it … Should also cancel the internal procedure that AFRINIC has designed for recovering resources. That is not in the scope “right now” of the policy manual, so we should set in-scope via a policy proposal. However, it looks like the Board could also decide not to ratify it … Our problem is now a bigger one than this policy, that in the best case will take 8-9 months to be implemented. In that time, we must make sure that the overal problem is resolved instead of investing in getting this policy down (and the full CPM down). It is a more wise usage of resources. And if we believe that AFRINIC is acting against the community, at least I’m starting to believe that, lacking responses, then we should escalate to ICANN. Regars,
Jordi

@jordipalet

 
  El 23/7/21 21:51, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> escribió: Sure, However, in the case of this specific policy which would allow RPKI to be weaponized by AFRINIC, I think itis irresponsible to hand a loaded howitzer to an irresponsible teenager. Owen 


On Jul 22, 2021, at 08:20 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote: Hi Owen, I don’t have all the details in my hands to judge if all was done correctly or not. Even if I trust you, I think we should agree that this is a major problem and not any specific policy. So, we should find the way to resolve that in a wider way, including a very clear and diligent responsivity from the board. Right now, I’ve been waiting for responses to my two previous emails from 14 and 15th July. I think one week is more than sufficient to respond. Regards,
Jordi

@jordipalet

 
  El 22/7/21 16:54, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> escribió:  



Begin forwarded message: From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>Subject: Re: [rpd] Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.Date: July 22, 2021 at 00:16:48 PDTTo: "rpd at afrinic.net" <rpd at afrinic.net>Reply-To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> Hi Owen, I don’t know, as many in the list, all the details and the real “true” (not one side, not the other), about the recent case. However, what I can say is that AFRINIC indicated in this case, that they will keep the resources in use for additional 3 months so customers aren’t impacted.
 This was not true. Because of the way they modified whois, multiple providers started rejecting LOAs as invalid and disconnecting customers. As such, their superficial claim that they were preventing customers from being impacted was not accurate.



Following the policy text, this is exactly the same thing. If there is a disagreement and then a recovery, until the recovery is “final” (the 3 months I just mention) the resources will not be incorporated in the AS0.
 Yes, but you are now assuming that AFRINIC will follow their own rules. Had AFRINIC actually followed their own rules, they would not have attempted to terminate Cloud Innovation’s membership and would not have altered the WHOIS entries in question. 



The recent case, demonstrated that it works, because in case of a dispute, you can still ask the courts, in the worst case, to take a position.
 If AFRINIC had acted responsibly and in compliance with their own rules, this would be true. Because AFRINIC does not follow its own rules and because AFRINIC was in such a rush to take adverse action the moment our injunction was temporarily lifted on a technicality, it is quite clear that they are willing to act in bad faith and contrary to their rules. So no, it does not work, because during the dispute AFRINIC chose to and was able to create substantial disruption to our customers while trying to pretend to the community that their hands were clean. Owen 
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