[rpd] balancing operators vs other participants in the PDP - was Re: Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.

[Noah]

Hi Jordi

What I am saying is that we out to be responsible but that does not mean we
must be anonymous.

With freedom comes responsibility.

Noah

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021, 13:42 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD, <rpd at afrinic.net>
wrote:


> Hi Noah,

>

>

>

> I personally agree with you and my behavior has always been the same: I

> freely speak and if that has consequences, I will find my way. No worries.

>

>

>

> But I understand that this is easy to say when you are single, have no

> family or other obligations to take care, or you’re sure that you will get

> a better job.

>

>

>

> You need to put yourself in the position of many people that speaking

> freely may put him in a very bad situation and even if I will not do that,

> personally, I need to respect it.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> El 8/6/21 12:26, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> escribió:

>

>

>

> The ideology "You have the freedom to speak, but we can't guarantee your

> freedom after speech" has failed since the beginning of time.

>

>

>

> We should never compromise freedom. Never even if the unintended

> consequences includes being fired.

>

>

>

> Be fired for what you believe in and in most cases, its for the greater

> good of the community because who are we without the community.

>

>

>

> So anonymity should not be encouraged. We must stand tall as men and women

> of conscience.

>

>

>

> Noah

>

>

>

> On Tue, 8 Jun 2021, 13:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD, <rpd at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

> (subject changed)

>

>

>

> Hi Paschal,

>

>

>

> Let me try to explain what I’m meaning here.

>

>

>

> Let’s asume I’m working for an operator. I’m anonymous at gmail.com.

>

>

>

> My employeer ask me to post an opinion following their internal

> policy/views/thoughs, and my email is jordi at operator.com. I can even say

> that this is the corporate view, etc.

>

>

>

> I “personally” disagree with that, but I need to do so to not be fired.

>

>

>

> I will post as jordi at operator.com what I’m instructed to.

>

>

>

> I will also post my **real personal opinion** as anymous at gmail.com. I can

> even say here “I work for an operator but I can’t disclose other details,

> as my opinions contradict my employeer ones and I could be fired if I

> contradict them”.

>

>

>

> Nobody needs to know that anonynous at gmail.com and jordi at operator.com are

> the same person, but at least, in the list the chairs can see that there is

> some bussiness perspective in some of the responses and that even operators

> think in a different way when they are free to speak.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> El 8/6/21 11:31, "Paschal Ochang" <pascosoft at gmail.com> escribió:

>

>

>

>

>

> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

> Hi Mike,

>

>

>

> Fully agree on this:

>

>

>

> Also agreed. However there have been objections from people regarding

> alleged negative impacts on network operations. In this case I think it is

> reasonable that the objector either:

>

>

>

> ·         identifies the *actual* network they operate; or

>

> ·         acknowledges that their objection is based on a hypothetical

> network and not actually based in reality (academics have great ideas too);

> or

>

> ·         admits that they are a paid shill for someone else.

>

>

>

>

>

> It will be awesome to justify objections and simplify the work of the

> authors in improving the policy or responding to the objections, and for

> the chairs to evaluate all the points.

>

>

>

> I will also say that if somene is participanting with an anonymous email,

> because it has a conflict of interest with his employeer, to state so

> (without giving employee deatails). That will help to balance if some

> opinions look contradictory, to understand why.

>

> Well I think that there is a moral or ethical justification to this but

> one may argue that it is still not enshrined in the current process or

> community definitions so a full disclosure cannot be enforced as a criteria

> for participation. So I think there is no need to go down that road and

> burn unnecessary calories.

>

>

>

> Saludos,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> El 8/6/21 10:41, "Mike Silber" <silber.mike at gmail.com> escribió:

>

>

>

> Hi Jordi

>

>

>

> On 8 Jun 2021, at 09:44, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>

> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> While I understand your point, I think that we need to agree that

> sometimes, non-operators, also provide points of view that help to improve

> policies.

>

>

>

> I do agree. However we need to accept that those contributions are largely

> on legal / policy issues.

>

>

>

> I am a legal / policy person and the views expressed on this policy

> regarding the RIR system and the legal and policy issues are without

> foundation. As I am a legal / policy person I don’t presume to comment on

> network operations.

>

>

>

> Also, there may be policies where the discussion will not be well balanced

> if only operators participate, because are not so closely related to

> operation, and instead to how to distribute resources that belong to the

> overall community.

>

>

>

> Also agreed. However there have been objections from people regarding

> alleged negative impacts on network operations. In this case I think it is

> reasonable that the objector either:

>

>

>

> ·         identifies the *actual* network they operate; or

>

> ·         acknowledges that their objection is based on a hypothetical

> network and not actually based in reality (academics have great ideas too);

> or

>

> ·         admits that they are a paid shill for someone else.

>

>

>

> Regards

>

>

>

> Mike

>

>

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>

>

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> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

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> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

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>

> --

> Kind regards,

>

> Paschal.

>

>

> **********************************************

> IPv4 is over

> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

> http://www.theipv6company.com

> The IPv6 Company

>

> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

> communication and delete it.

>

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>

>

> **********************************************

> IPv4 is over

> Are you ready for the new Internet ?

> http://www.theipv6company.com

> The IPv6 Company

>

> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

> communication and delete it.

>

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