<div dir="auto">Hi Jordi<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What I am saying is that we out to be responsible but that does not mean we must be anonymous.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">With freedom comes responsibility.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Noah</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 8 Jun 2021, 13:42 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD, <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="ES" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"><div class="m_5855541633794437469WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi Noah,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">I personally agree with you and my behavior has always been the same: I freely speak and if that has consequences, I will find my way. No worries.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">But I understand that this is easy to say when you are single, have no family or other obligations to take care, or you’re sure that you will get a better job. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">You need to put yourself in the position of many people that speaking freely may put him in a very bad situation and even if I will not do that, personally, I need to respect it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jordi<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">@jordipalet<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 8/6/21 12:26, "Noah" <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">The ideology "You have the freedom to speak, but we can't guarantee your freedom after speech" has failed since the beginning of time.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">We should never compromise freedom. <span lang="EN-US">Never even if the unintended consequences includes being fired.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Be fired for what you believe in and in most cases, its for the greater good of the community because who are we without the community.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">So anonymity should not be encouraged. We must stand tall as men and women of conscience. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Noah<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On Tue, 8 Jun 2021, 13:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD, <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">(subject changed)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi Paschal,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Let me try to explain what I’m meaning here.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Let’s asume I’m working for an operator. I’m <a href="mailto:anonymous@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">anonymous@gmail.com</a>.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">My employeer ask me to post an opinion following their internal policy/views/thoughs, and my email is <a href="mailto:jordi@operator.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jordi@operator.com</a>. I can even say that this is the corporate view, etc.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I “personally” disagree with that, but I need to do so to not be fired.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I will post as <a href="mailto:jordi@operator.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jordi@operator.com</a> what I’m instructed to.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I will also post my *<b>real personal opinion</b>* as <a href="mailto:anymous@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">anymous@gmail.com</a>. I can even say here “I work for an operator but I can’t disclose other details, as my opinions contradict my employeer ones and I could be fired if I contradict them”.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Nobody needs to know that <a href="mailto:anonynous@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">anonynous@gmail.com</a> and <a href="mailto:jordi@operator.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jordi@operator.com</a> are the same person, but at least, in the list the chairs can see that there is some bussiness perspective in some of the responses and that even operators think in a different way when they are free to speak.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jordi</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 8/6/21 11:31, "Paschal Ochang" <<a href="mailto:pascosoft@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pascosoft@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><br><br>On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi Mike,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Fully agree on this:</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang="EN-US">Also agreed. However there have been objections from people regarding alleged negative impacts on network operations. In this case I think it is reasonable that the objector either:</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:142.2pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US">identifies the *actual* network they operate; or</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:142.2pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US">acknowledges that their objection is based on a hypothetical network and not actually based in reality (academics have great ideas too); or</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:142.2pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span lang="EN-US">admits that they are a paid shill for someone else. </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">It will be awesome to justify objections and simplify the work of the authors in improving the policy or responding to the objections, and for the chairs to evaluate all the points.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I will also say that if somene is participanting with an anonymous email, because it has a conflict of interest with his employeer, to state so (without giving employee deatails). That will help to balance if some opinions look contradictory, to understand why.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Well I think that there is a moral or ethical justification to this but one may argue that it is still not enshrined in the current process or community definitions so a full disclosure cannot be enforced as a criteria for participation. So I think there is no need to go down that road and burn unnecessary calories.<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Saludos,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jordi</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">El 8/6/21 10:41, "Mike Silber" <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Hi Jordi<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">On 8 Jun 2021, at 09:44, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">While I understand your point, I think that we need to agree that sometimes, non-operators, also provide points of view that help to improve policies. </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">I do agree. However we need to accept that those contributions are largely on legal / policy issues.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">I am a legal / policy person and the views expressed on this policy regarding the RIR system and the legal and policy issues are without foundation. As I am a legal / policy person I don’t presume to comment on network operations.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Also, there may be policies where the discussion will not be well balanced if only operators participate, because are not so closely related to operation, and instead to how to distribute resources that belong to the overall community.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Also agreed. However there have been objections from people regarding alleged negative impacts on network operations. In this case I think it is reasonable that the objector either:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:142.2pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>identifies the *actual* network they operate; or<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:142.2pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>acknowledges that their objection is based on a hypothetical network and not actually based in reality (academics have great ideas too); or<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:142.2pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>admits that they are a paid shill for someone else. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Regards<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Mike<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><br>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. 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The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. 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