[rpd] Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.

[Saul Stein]

Hi

I say this as an AFRINIC member who is affected by the policies that are either implemented or NOT implemented.

While I agree with the community, bottom up approach, I am starting to have an issue where the term “community” is a little stretched. By that, I mean people who are in or out of the region, with apparent little to no understanding of networks anonymously (gmail, representing themselves without us knowing what networks they run and or manage) holding the discussion and policy to ransom.

I have on issues with people who represent and run networks from anywhere willing to assist in the betterment of our policies.

As someone once said, with freedom, comes responsibility.

Just my 2c worth


From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
Sent: Tuesday, 08 June 2021 08:38
To: rpd at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [rpd] Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.

(semi-irony mode on)

Wow, so much difficult problem statement! Some possible responses:


  1.  Because some people don’t operate networks, or don’t do it properly?
  2.  Because some people aren’t interested in understanding it or not interested in measures to protect resources, because that will make easy to avoid their improper business models (or even maybe bad activities)?
  3.  Because some people are speaking on behalf others?

And all this explains inmature and unreaseanable objections not just to this policy proposal, but to any proposal that try to facilitate the accuracy of the RIRs and simplify the job of good faith operators in a standard way.

Policies aren’t meant to protect business, specially those against the overall community interest. If you’re doing something wrong or in the limit of what is acceptable, you don’t have interest in certain policies.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 8/6/21 8:24, "Mark Elkins" <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> escribió:


Well said Frank!

I still don't understand why some people don't see this.
On 6/8/21 8:01 AM, Frank Habicht wrote:

Hi



On 08/06/2021 01:45, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:

Hi,



Are you postulating here that Resources not allocated are susceptible to

hijack?

- resources are susceptible to hijack.

- if a ROA with AS0 was published for an unallocated resource, it would

   be less susceptible to hijack.





My other understanding is an RIR is a resource dispenser.

When I get my next resource from AfriNIC, I will prefer one that was not

previously hijacked and used for spamming and network abuse, and got

blacklisted and a bad reputation everywhere.



What about you?





Thanks,

Frank





Simply

Daniel



On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 11:30 PM Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com<mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>

<mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com><mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>> wrote:



    AfriNic (or any other RIR) is the resource holder for IP space that

    IANA has allocated to it. So who else could secure that space until

    it is assigned to an organization issuing ROAs if not the current

    resource holder ?



    Must we have a policy accepted by either RIPE or ARIN first in order

    to accept it in AfriNic afterwards ?

    This is not a worry to the RIR, it is actually an additional

    guarantee that no one else will try to make usage of IP space under

    its responsability.



    Fernando



    On 07/06/2021 19:14, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:

    Dear Jordi,



    Just out of curiosity why has RIPE and ARIN refused to adopt the

    RPKI ROA and make it their responsibility that it is used by

    resource holder?. I will agree that RPKI ROA is a good tool to

    secure BGP routing, however I don't see as the responsibility of

    an RIR to implement it.



    My strong opinion is that any resource holder should be

    responsible for securing its resources and if RPKI ROA is the best

    way to prevent hijack, then it will enjoy patronage. Making it a

    job of AfriNIC, will possibly be going over board.



    Responding to my opening question, I believe RIPE and ARIN are not

    keen on accepting your arguments because they are mundane. This

    means resource holders should handle this issue, without making it

    a worry of the RIR.



    In this regard, AfriNIC should concentrate on handling other more

    important issues, hence this policy is not relevant.





    Simply



    Daniel



    On 07/06/2021 6:3pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:

    Ni Mimi,____



    __ __



    No, is not ideological, the legal counsel already confirmed the

    being bookkeepers has many other **related** implications, such

    as provide a trustable source of accurate data, and this is what

    RPKI and AS0 improve.____



    __ __



    The fact that in RIPE has not been accepted yet is just one more

    excuse, if you compare it with the fact that the other TWO RIRs

    where it has been submitted (APNIC and LACNIC) accepted it and in

    none of those regions there have been any of the excuses and lack

    of knowledge about RPKI that we are hearing here. As I’ve

    explained already, I don’t think the RIPE chairs decision was

    correct, and we will make sure to resubmit the proposal there

    once a consistent appeal process is available, in case chairs

    take again a wrong decision. Also, then the experience in APNIC,

    LACNIC and AFRINIC will show that those motivations are

    ridiculous.____



    __ __



    From time to time is good that ARIN and RIPE aren’t the leaders,

    you don’t think so? It shows that very smart people exist in

    other regions as well!____



    __ __



    Once more, sometimes policies in one or the other region fail to

    reach consensus, but it happens sooner or later.____



    __ __



    If you have a simple and trustable tool such as RPKI to drop

    invalids, you have a better way (if you want) to avoid bad actors

    to use prefixes that don’t belong to them as they are still on

    the hands of AFRINIC. This is just facts. Not ideological, not

    opinions or personal view points. So yes, AS0 avoids, if you

    operate your network in a consistent way, to be faked with

    prefixes not allocated/assigned by AFRINIC, and thus helps to

    prevent hijacking.____



    __ __



    Regards,____



    Jordi____



    @jordipalet____



    __ __



    __ __



    __ __



    El 7/6/21 18:47, "Mimi dy" <dym5328 at gmail.com<mailto:dym5328 at gmail.com>

    <mailto:dym5328 at gmail.com><mailto:dym5328 at gmail.com>> escribió:____



    __ __



    Dear WG,____



     ____



    I think the issue here is ideological. Many people believe that

    RIRs are mere bookkeepers, and it is not in their mandate to

    inject data into the routing database. That is the reason why

    RIPE did not approve a similar proposal, which I totally agree

    with. Moreover, I wanted to react to Jordi’s statement, saying

    that these objections are based on practical and technical

    matters. There is not only one routing database, there are many,

    isn’t it kind of messy? And that is not even the main reason why

    I object to this policy. ____



    From another perspective, since people can adjust and control

    their routers, can you precise how this policy can potentially

    prevent/ reduce hijacking?____



     ____



    Best.____



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