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[rpd] Community Feedback
Jaco Kroon
jaco at uls.co.za
Thu Dec 3 12:51:25 UTC 2020
Hi Lucilla,
1. I personally never asked any author to withdraw anything.
2. I believe the current wording is perfectly clear; as such:
3. Could you please clarify - by way of reference to the CPM text -
clarify what doubts (uncertainty, ambiguity) do you read in the text as
it's written?
4. I did state my support that I don't see an emergency here and that
both the proposal and the recall process should follow the existing
established processes.
Kind Regards,
Jaco
On 2020/12/03 14:07, lucilla fornaro wrote:
> Dear Jaco,
>
> considering the contest, clearly, we are not facing any of the
> emergencies you mentioned. Remaining closer to the purpose of the
> discussion, the current recall process opens the door to several
> doubts. The incompletion of the call request section is already
> creating issues and can potentially create unfair situations that in
> the interest of the community we should try to avoid and fix in
> advance. The proposal can help us and there are no reasons to ask the
> author to withdraw it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lucilla
>
> Il giorno gio 3 dic 2020 alle ore 06:16 Jaco Kroon <jaco at uls.co.za
> <mailto:jaco at uls.co.za>> ha scritto:
>
> Hi Lucilla,
>
> Please clarify the emergency here? Will a war break out if this
> policy doesn't get changed sooner than the normal process? Will
> someone die? What's the emergency here?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Jaco
>
> On 2020/12/02 15:22, lucilla fornaro wrote:
>
>> Dear Community,
>>
>> Section 3.6 of the CPM says: “The process outlined in this
>> document may vary in the case of an emergency. Variance is for
>> use when a one-time waiving of some provision of this document is
>> required”.
>> The author should not withdraw this important proposal for two
>> reasons: firstly, it is valuable, and secondly, if not approved
>> it will automatically expire.
>> I believe this is exactly the moment for the chairs to change the
>> process of the PDP, considering that we do find in the case of an
>> emergency.
>>
>>
>> Regards Lucilla
>>
>> Il giorno mer 2 dic 2020 alle ore 21:48 Ibeanusi Elvis
>> <ibeanusielvis at gmail.com <mailto:ibeanusielvis at gmail.com>> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>> Dear community,
>>
>> Adding to the ongoing discussion on this mailing list,
>> besides the fact that this Request to Recall the PDWG
>> Co-Chairs is based on personal grievances with the co-chairs
>> and emotions, I don’t see a form of fast tracking this
>> ongoing recall process and like the co-chairs stated, the
>> so-called "promotion or fast-track” is of no benefit to them.
>> They (the co-chairs) just performed their administrative
>> function and in the principle of fairness, openness, and
>> transparency, brought it forward to the RPD community for
>> discussion. Likewise, the personal attack needs to stop,
>> saying that the co-chairs are imitating the behavior of an
>> “AFRICAN DICTATOR” whom wants to do everything they can to
>> stay in power including adjusting the country’s constitution
>> went too far and very disrespectful and an insult to their
>> integrity and personality. Also, a disregard to the long
>> hours and dedication that they have put into the service of
>> this AFRINIC organization.
>>
>> Similarly, proposing a withdrawal of a draft policy proposal
>> is not functional as the CPM 3.4.1 elucidates that first,
>> "During the development of policy, draft versions of the
>> document are made available for review and comment by
>> publishing them on the AFRINIC website and posting them to
>> the rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net> mailing
>> list.” which is currently happening. Also, the same CPM
>> 3.4.1 states that "A draft policy expires after one calendar
>> year unless it is approved by the AFRINIC Board of Directors
>> as a policy. Hence, the idea of suggesting a withdrawal
>> should end as well as the personal attacks. If you have an
>> personal issues or grievances with the co-chairs, find a way
>> to settle it with them.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Elvis.
>>>
>>> I'm a stickler to rules and procedures and not interested or
>>> have a vested interest. Therefore consider my notes below as
>>> advisory to guide your decision as I do not want to argue
>>> for it against.
>>>
>>> Aside from providing a context you have given in your
>>> earlier email, I must call your attention to this Latin
>>> word *“no one should be a judge in their own cause”*. It is
>>> one of the cardinal rules of natural justice that no one
>>> should act as a judge a case in which they have a personal
>>> (vested) interest.
>>>
>>>
>>> Secondly, I wish to refer you to section 3.41. and 3.4.2.
>>> of the CPM as posted below before you invoke sections 3.6
>>> which has lots of ambiguity which I have noted in my several
>>> correspondence on this mailing list. There is legal
>>> standing of a section of a law or CMP needs to stand as
>>> procedures.
>>>
>>> Let me try to clarify with a little LAW 101 classroom
>>> explanation based on the principle of antecedent law. This
>>> simply means *the Nature and Evolution of the Rules of
>>> Procedure and Evidence. is a doctrine of interpretation
>>> where a court interprets a qualifying clause to refer to
>>> the immediately preceding words or phrases.*
>>> In the light of the above, you must first satisfy the
>>> following in this order BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY CONCENSUS DECISION :
>>>
>>> 1: Publish on the website which has not been done or
>>> referred to in your email (See CMP section 3.4.1 for advice
>>> as seen below)
>>> 2. The draft policy shall be available for review for at
>>> least four weeks before the next Public Policy Meeting.
>>> 3: */CONDITIONAL Statement but best practice before any
>>> meeting or consensus decision is made: /*The Working Group
>>> Chair(s) may request AFRINIC to provide an analysis
>>> (technical, financial, legal or other), of the impact of the
>>> draft policy proposal.
>>> 4. Each policy proposals must be place on an agenda for a
>>> PUBLIC MEETING. (This section must be satisfied before you
>>> proceed to interpret section 3.6)
>>> 5. The agenda of the meeting shall be announced on the
>>> Resource Policy Discussion mailing list at least two weeks
>>> prior to the meeting. (Are we having another PPM before the
>>> end of this year?)
>>>
>>> Please note that my comments are observations and advisory
>>> to enrich out understanding of the CPM and it's interpretation.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Caleb Ogundele
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Extract of CPM Referenced
>>> =============================================================================
>>>
>>>
>>> 3.4.1 Draft Policy Proposal
>>>
>>> During the development of policy, draft versions of the
>>> document are made available for review and comment by
>>> publishing them on the AFRINIC website and posting them to
>>> the rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net> mailing list.
>>> Each draft policy is assigned a unique identifier by AFRINIC
>>> and the AFRINIC website shall also contain the version
>>> history and the status of all proposals.
>>>
>>> The draft policy shall be available for review for at least
>>> four weeks before the next Public Policy Meeting. The
>>> author(s) shall make the necessary changes to the draft
>>> policy according to the feedback received. The Working Group
>>> Chair(s) may request AFRINIC to provide an analysis
>>> (technical, financial, legal or other), of the impact of the
>>> draft policy proposal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3.4.2 Public Policy Meeting
>>>
>>> The draft policy is placed on the agenda of an open public
>>> policy meeting. The agenda of the meeting shall be announced
>>> on the Resource Policy Discussion mailing list at least two
>>> weeks prior to the meeting. No change can be made to a draft
>>> policy within one week of the meeting. This is so that a
>>> stable version of the draft policy can be considered at the
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 10:51 AM Murungi Daniel
>>> <dmurungi at wia.co.tz <mailto:dmurungi at wia.co.tz>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Nishal Goburdhan
>>> <nishal at controlfreak.co.za
>>> <mailto:nishal at controlfreak.co.za>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On 2 Dec 2020, at 6:29, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Dear PDWG Members,
>>> >> We want to acknowledge the proposal on Co-Chair
>>> Recall process
>>> >
>>> > please pause.
>>> >
>>> > consider that you are asking this WG if they want to
>>> fast track a proposal that you (the co-chairs and policy
>>> officer) have neither:
>>> > #1 - disclosed to this working group; sorry, but some
>>> random gmail account posting a proprietary binary to
>>> this list, is *NOT* a policy submission. those of us
>>> that do not open attachments from random strangers are
>>> waiting for the text version to be posted to this list
>>> (as is the norm)
>>> >
>>> > #2 - given an identifier to yet
>>> >
>>> > without even knowing the contents of the PDF, there
>>> are procedural steps involved in submission that you
>>> have not yet completed. it’s entirely unclear to me how
>>> you expect people to assess the value of this proposal
>>> when they have not yet had a chance to read it. and
>>> without assessing this value, it’s inconceivable that
>>> you would even consider fast tracking this.
>>> >
>>> > please, stick to the process.
>>> >
>>> > —n.
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> > RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
>>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
>>> /*muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*/
>>> /*234 - 8077377378*/
>>> /*234 - 07030777969*/
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
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>>
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>>
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