<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Hi Lucilla,</p>
<p>1. I personally never asked any author to withdraw anything.<br>
2. I believe the current wording is perfectly clear; as such:<br>
3. Could you please clarify - by way of reference to the CPM text
- clarify what doubts (uncertainty, ambiguity) do you read in the
text as it's written?<br>
</p>
<p>4. I did state my support that I don't see an emergency here and
that both the proposal and the recall process should follow the
existing established processes.<br>
</p>
<p>Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco<br>
</p>
On 2020/12/03 14:07, lucilla fornaro wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKJg62+NPpdEeKRAobgqpXuKFZZ8ZyOeia6voLfrD9zYWmeVsQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Jaco,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>considering the contest, clearly, we are not facing any
of the emergencies you mentioned. Remaining closer to the
purpose of the discussion, the current recall process opens
the door to several doubts. The incompletion of the call
request section is already creating issues and can
potentially create unfair situations that in the interest of
the community we should try to avoid and fix in advance. The
proposal can help us and there are no reasons to ask the
author to withdraw it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lucilla</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 3 dic 2020 alle
ore 06:16 Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za"
moz-do-not-send="true">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi Lucilla,</p>
<p>Please clarify the emergency here? Will a war break out
if this policy doesn't get changed sooner than the normal
process? Will someone die? What's the emergency here?<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco<br>
</p>
<p>On 2020/12/02 15:22, lucilla fornaro wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dear Community,</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Section 3.6 of the CPM
says: “The process outlined in this document may
vary in the case of an emergency. Variance is for
use when a one-time waiving of some provision of
this document is required”. </div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">The author should not
withdraw this important proposal for two reasons:
firstly, it is valuable, and secondly, if not
approved it will automatically expire. </div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">I believe this is
exactly the moment for the chairs to change the
process of the PDP, considering that we do find in
the case of an emergency.</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Regards Lucilla </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mer 2 dic
2020 alle ore 21:48 Ibeanusi Elvis <<a
href="mailto:ibeanusielvis@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ibeanusielvis@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Dear
community,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adding to the ongoing discussion on this
mailing list, besides the fact that this Request
to Recall the PDWG Co-Chairs is based on personal
grievances with the co-chairs and emotions, I
don’t see a form of fast tracking this ongoing
recall process and like the co-chairs stated, the
so-called "promotion or fast-track” is of no
benefit to them. They (the co-chairs) just
performed their administrative function and in the
principle of fairness, openness, and transparency,
brought it forward to the RPD community for
discussion. Likewise, the personal attack needs to
stop, saying that the co-chairs are imitating the
behavior of an “AFRICAN DICTATOR” whom wants to do
everything they can to stay in power including
adjusting the country’s constitution went too far
and very disrespectful and an insult to their
integrity and personality. Also, a disregard to
the long hours and dedication that they have put
into the service of this AFRINIC organization. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Similarly, proposing a withdrawal of a draft
policy proposal is not functional as the CPM 3.4.1
elucidates that first, "<span
style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif">During
the development of policy, draft versions of the
document are made available for review and
comment by publishing them on the AFRINIC
website and posting them to the </span><span
id="gmail-m_3250227765897837290gmail-m_-3018335269061364756gmail-cloak0d51ab8d2a6602c0283affe46f0fb1f3"
style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;box-sizing:border-box"><a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(210,114,70);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a></span><font
face="Roboto, sans-serif" color="#757575"><span
style="font-size:14px"> mailing list.</span><span
style="font-size:14px">”</span><span
style="font-size:14px"> </span></font> which
is currently happening. Also, the same CPM 3.4.1
states that "<span
style="color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A
draft policy expires after one calendar year
unless it is approved by the AFRINIC Board of
Directors as a policy. </span>Hence, the idea of
suggesting a withdrawal should end as well as the
personal attacks. If you have an personal issues
or grievances with the co-chairs, find a way to
settle it with them. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, </div>
<div>Elvis. </div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
I'm a stickler to rules and procedures and
not interested or have a vested interest.
Therefore consider my notes below as
advisory to guide your decision as I do
not want to argue for it against.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Aside from providing a context you have
given in your earlier email, I must call
your attention to this <span
style="color:rgb(32,33,36);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px">Latin
word <b>“no one should be a judge in
their own cause”</b>. It is one of the
cardinal rules of natural justice that
no one should act as a judge a case in
which they have a personal (vested)
interest.</span> </div>
<div><br>
<br>
Secondly, I wish to refer you to section
3.41. and 3.4.2. of the CPM as posted
below before you invoke sections 3.6 which
has lots of ambiguity which I have noted
in my several correspondence on this
mailing list. There is legal standing of
a section of a law or CMP needs to stand
as procedures.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me try to clarify with a little LAW
101 classroom explanation based on the
principle of antecedent law. This simply
means <b>the Nature and Evolution of the
Rules of Procedure and Evidence. is a
doctrine of interpretation where a
court interprets a qualifying clause to
refer to the immediately preceding words
or phrases.</b><br>
In the light of the above, you must first
satisfy the following in this order BEFORE
YOU MAKE ANY CONCENSUS DECISION :</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1: Publish on the website which has not
been done or referred to in your email
(See CMP section 3.4.1 for advice as seen
below)</div>
<div>2. The draft policy shall be available
for review for at least four weeks before
the next Public Policy Meeting. </div>
<div>3: <b><i>CONDITIONAL Statement but
best practice before any meeting or
consensus decision is made: </i></b>The
Working Group Chair(s) may request AFRINIC
to provide an analysis (technical,
financial, legal or other), of the impact
of the draft policy proposal.</div>
<div>4. Each policy proposals must be place
on an agenda for a PUBLIC MEETING. (This
section must be satisfied before you
proceed to interpret section 3.6)</div>
<div>5. The agenda of the meeting shall be
announced on the Resource Policy
Discussion mailing list at least two weeks
prior to the meeting. (Are we having
another PPM before the end of this year?)<br>
<br>
Please note that my comments are
observations and advisory to enrich out
understanding of the CPM and it's
interpretation. <br>
<br>
Regards</div>
<div><br>
Caleb Ogundele<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Extract of CPM Referenced<br>
=============================================================================</div>
<div><br>
<h3>3.4.1 Draft Policy Proposal</h3>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
0px
5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px">During
the development of policy, draft
versions of the document are made
available for review and comment by
publishing them on the AFRINIC website
and posting them to the <span
id="gmail-m_3250227765897837290gmail-m_-3018335269061364756gmail-cloak0d51ab8d2a6602c0283affe46f0fb1f3"
style="box-sizing:border-box"><a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(210,114,70);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a></span> mailing
list. Each draft policy is assigned a
unique identifier by AFRINIC and the
AFRINIC website shall also contain the
version history and the status of all
proposals.</p>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
0px
5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px">The
draft policy shall be available for
review for at least four weeks before
the next Public Policy Meeting. The
author(s) shall make the necessary
changes to the draft policy according to
the feedback received. The Working Group
Chair(s) may request AFRINIC to provide
an analysis (technical, financial, legal
or other), of the impact of the draft
policy proposal.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<h3>3.4.2 Public Policy Meeting</h3>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
0px
5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px">The
draft policy is placed on the agenda of
an open public policy meeting. The
agenda of the meeting shall be announced
on the Resource Policy Discussion
mailing list at least two weeks prior to
the meeting. No change can be made to a
draft policy within one week of the
meeting. This is so that a stable
version of the draft policy can be
considered at the meeting. </p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed,
Dec 2, 2020 at 10:51 AM Murungi Daniel
<<a href="mailto:dmurungi@wia.co.tz"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dmurungi@wia.co.tz</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">+1<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Nishal
Goburdhan <<a
href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> On 2 Dec 2020, at 6:29, ABDULKARIM
OLOYEDE wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> Dear PDWG Members,<br>
>> We want to acknowledge the
proposal on Co-Chair Recall process<br>
> <br>
> please pause.<br>
> <br>
> consider that you are asking this WG
if they want to fast track a proposal that
you (the co-chairs and policy officer)
have neither:<br>
> #1 - disclosed to this working
group; sorry, but some random gmail
account posting a proprietary binary to
this list, is *NOT* a policy submission.
those of us that do not open attachments
from random strangers are waiting for the
text version to be posted to this list (as
is the norm)<br>
> <br>
> #2 - given an identifier to yet<br>
> <br>
> without even knowing the contents of
the PDF, there are procedural steps
involved in submission that you have not
yet completed. it’s entirely unclear to
me how you expect people to assess the
value of this proposal when they have not
yet had a chance to read it. and without
assessing this value, it’s inconceivable
that you would even consider fast tracking
this.<br>
> <br>
> please, stick to the process.<br>
> <br>
> —n.<br>
> <br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
> RPD mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><b><font size="4"
color="#33ccff">Ogundele Olumuyiwa
Caleb</font></b>
<div><font color="#993300"><i><b><a
href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></b></i></font></div>
<div><i><b><font color="#666666">234 -
8077377378</font></b></i></div>
<div><i><b><font color="#666666">234 -
07030777969</font></b></i></div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>