[rpd] REQUEST TO RECALL THE AFRINIC PDWG CO-CHAIRS

[Kakel Mbumb]

Bonjour à tous,

Nous faisons confiance en l'approche que prendra le board of directors
selon la procédure tout en leur demandant de rester à l'écoute de la
communauté et de ses interventions.

Au vue des échanges à ce jour, il semble y avoir deux tendances qui se
dégagent pour ou Contre la continuité de la procédure dans la proposition
d'Abdulrauf.

Tout en respectant la procédure, qu'il soit important de demeurer dans la
logique de la construction dans une synergie positive et non le souci
quelconque de vouloir reconduire une procédure qui contribuerait à nous
retarder.

Sommes-nous prêts pour les futurs challenges techniques qui nous attendent
dans l'usage d'internet ou bien nous allons continuer à se distraire dans
des processus rébarbatifs improductifs.

Passons à l'essentiel.

Cordialement...

Le ven. 27 nov. 2020 à 05:18, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> a écrit :


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> Today's Topics:

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>    1. Re: REQUEST TO RECALL THE AFRINIC PDWG CO-CHAIRS (Wijdane Goubi)

>    2. Re: Policy proposal (Fernando Frediani)

>

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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 22:56:03 +0100

> From: Wijdane Goubi <goubi.wijdane at gmail.com>

> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at skannet.com>

> Cc: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>

> Subject: Re: [rpd] REQUEST TO RECALL THE AFRINIC PDWG CO-CHAIRS

> Message-ID:

>         <CAKKt+fDxfVifKoY6pczhK-=

> gCzfZ06vtPaxdtJNCQPfWkVh_kg at mail.gmail.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>

> Hello again,

> I believe  the recall committee is in a position to decide whether the

> recall shall be held or not and then it is for the community to decide if

> the the co-chairs should be removed or not which is, however, less liable

> to cause confusion, and in many other ways more convenient and favorable to

> the community's interest, purpose and needs.

> On the other way around, organizing a vote was never meant to ?completely

> ignore what is written in the CPM?. One cannot deny that WE all respect and

> should follow the CPM. Let?s not try to create a confusion in order to have

> our own way.

> I hope the committee sees how much of a bias and lack of objectivity this

> recall is based on.

> Kind regards,

> Wijdane

>

> Le jeu. 26 nov. 2020 ? 20:51, Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at skannet.com> a

> ?crit :

>

> > On 11/26/20 2:44 PM, Frank Habicht wrote:

> > >

> > > On 26/11/2020 15:26, Fernando Frediani wrote:

> > > ...

> > >> "3.5.3 - Anyone may request the recall of a Working Group Chair at any

> > >> time, upon written request with justification to the AFRINIC Board of

> > >> Directors. The request must be supported by at least five (5) other

> > >> persons from the Working Group. The AFRINIC Board of Directors shall

> > >> appoint a recall committee, excluding the persons requesting the

> recall

> > >> and the Working Group Chairs. The recall committee shall investigate

> the

> > >> circumstances of the justification for the recall *and determine the

> > >> outcome.*"

> > > in my opinion "the outcome" clearly means *the outcome of the recall*.

> >

> >

> > +1

> >

> > Sunday.

> >

> > >

> > > Frank

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

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> Message: 2

> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 01:17:54 -0300

> From: Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>

> To: rpd at afrinic.net

> Subject: Re: [rpd] Policy proposal

> Message-ID: <89dd7ce0-84a2-9ac1-1ea2-e62f56a7bb2f at gmail.com>

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>

> I will try to put below the many reasons I strongly oppose this

> proposal. I ask people to take the time to read and understand certain

> details that must be taken in consideration when trying to change such

> critical thing for a Policy Development Forum, specially those who have

> been inflamed by the recent events and that may be trying to push for

> this unreasonable change in what a seems a desperate try to having some

> people protected.

>

> - In ANY Policy Development Forum there must be a mechanism to recall or

> dismiss the Chairs and that is a perfectly thing to happen. That in most

> places in most RIRs lies in the hands of the Board of Directors of the

> RIR directly or indirectly and that is perfectly fine for those who have

> been surprised with it. And that mechanism DOES NOT necessarily have to

> have a final saying from the community. There are many reasons for that

> among it:

>

> 1) The difficulty to leave it in the hands of the community for any

> situation and to be able to act quickly when necessary for the

> protection of the RIR.

> 2) Not necessarily the community will taken a decision that goes towards

> the interest of the members of the RIR. Rather then a fair and impartial

> decision it will always be a political decision which is a tragedy in

> such situations.

> 3) The counterweight weights system that must exist in this ecosystem.

> 4) It is much convenient to leave in the hands of the Board of Directors

> than delay this type of decision for 'who knows how long'(several

> months?) to gather community together to take a decision. Board of

> Directors must be able to act quickly when necessary to remove a bad

> Co-Chair who may be seriously damaging PDWG or the RIR.

> 5) The Board of Director is to be considered a trustable body to take

> such an important decision not only the benefit of the RIR but also most

> of the time in the benefit of the community. They have the proper means

> to do that with the help of staff and other people to take an proper and

> impartial decision.

> 6) The Board of Directors WILL NOT simply take this decision as their

> pleasure, but only in very exceptional situations when needed and taking

> in consideration the justifications presented and asked by a certain

> numbers of the community.

>

> - It is not true what the Summary of the proposal says that the CPM does

> not have a full mechanism to complete a recall process. Despite some

> people may not like it given the actual circumstances, the process

> exist, is clear how it works and is similar to how it's done in other

> RIRs, therefore there is nothing exotic or different here in AfriNic.

>

> - There are reasons here and in other places the removal of Co-Chairs is

> in the hands of the Board. That was well considered when it was first

> thought and written. Perhaps people supporting this proposal may not

> have full knowledge about these reasons. Does anyone find wrong after a

> proposal reached consensus it has to be submitted for the Board's

> ratification ? Probably not, and the same way there are proper reasons

> for that. Otherwise following the improper justifications of the

> proposal someone may also say that proposals should also not have to be

> ratified by the Board which would be something unprecedented.

>

> - Limiting the recall request for the PDWG Chair(s) is so absurd that if

> a recall request is denied by the Board it means the Co-Chair at the

> time will be free to commit any mistakes anf faults they wish with no

> left mechanism at all to be Recalled until the end of their term. There

> MUST BE no limit of recall requests as long there are justifications and

> proper evidences for that. It is up to the Board to decide if that

> request make sense or not and accept or dismiss it. It is unthinkable to

> consider people will just fill Recall requests just for pleasure without

> any evidences of serious faults of the Co-Chairs. It is fair enough to

> trust the Board of Director will do their job properly and seriously on

> such situations.

>

> - Having the board to 'consult the community' is something totally

> unnecessary. It is up to them to do that checking and verification they

> feel necessary and therefore this burden must not be imposed to them

> that have the necessary mechanisms to find out about the evidences

> presented.

>

> - Having the Board to investigate the "challenged integrity" of the

> members of the Recall Committee is another complete absurd and a huge

> burden to the Board. We should trust the Board will take necessary

> consideration to appoint members and not have the risk to go into a

> endless process made not to work of several steps in order to not have

> the case resolved. Board decision should not be at the validation of the

> community as proposed. This proposal is giving excessive and unnecessary

> work to the Board in a exotic scenario that is unknown in any other

> forums worldwide.

>

> - The proposal uses another exotic term "super majority" for the Board

> votes without specifying what that means in that scenario which suggest

> the proposal was written with a lot of passion and little thinking or

> consideration about it.

>

> - Adding a vote recall for the community is the most absurd thing in the

> proposal. That takes over the well established mechanism that lies in

> the hands of the Board of Directors to pass it to the community that

> will probably not have by far the necessary mechanisms to check the

> evidences and decide on such complex matter. Also that might put in

> serious danger the interests of the RIR to have such process out of the

> control of the Board of Directors. Besides creates a totally new and

> exotic mechanism that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

>

> - In analogy let's compare the Recall process with a trial. Has anyone

> even seen a non-criminal trial decision decided "by votes" and not by

> judges ? No that is taken by professional judges who have the means and

> the trust to take such complex decision with impartiality. If the final

> decision is based in a vote that becomes a pure political process and

> puts in danger the interest of RIR.

>

> - For the "final vote Recall" the proposal puts an absurd 70%

> "supermajority" which seems to be meant in order to never be able to

> Recall any chairs. In such situations the risk of vote manipulation is

> high and 70% would hardly be reached bringing again a serious danger to

> the RIR.

>

> - The whole proposal is over-complicated, takes time and seems to be

> make to never work. There are so many steps involved and times to go

> through that in practice it voids the workable existent and efficient

> process currently available in the CPM.

>

> I agree with the statement that: "The substance of this draft proposal

> seeks to alter the pillar of minimum Board involvement, without clearly

> articulating why.", that it burdens the Board with a lot of extra work

> and that this proposal was submitted in haste and biased by the current

> situation.

>

> Regards

> Fernando

>

> On 24/11/2020 10:56, Abdulrauf Yamta wrote:

> > Dear Co-Chairs

> > Please find attached?a policy proposal named AFRINIC Co-Chair Recall

> > process. In view of some current development, and the need to have a

> > recall process properly defined we seek that the chairs should seek

> > that this proposal?be discussed immediately.

> > Thanks

> >

> > Abdulrauf *Yamta*

> >

> >

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