[rpd] Reversal of Consensus on Resource Transfer Policy

[Mark Elkins]

Mike, I agree with your summary. I'd also add that people who use gmail 
addresses also add a little suspicion unless I actually know them.

On 2020/10/19 08:36, Mike Silber wrote:

> Amazing that my mail to “Lamiaa” is answered by “Lucilla” (with a 

> quick response by “Gabi”).

>

> This is a response to the list, as I see little point in responding to 

> an identity whose provenance and identity is still uncertain.

>

> I relish different opinions. For example - my friend Noah and I 

> disagree on many things. However:

>

> - I have met him;

> - I have been on calls with him;

> - I know what networks he operates;

> - I know his technical background and experience.

>

> So when we disagree, I have to afford him the respect he deserves 

> because I have data. I either understand his perspective (even though 

> I think it may be wrong) or at least I understand his motivations.

>

> Through it all - he has worked to earn the respect of all of us by his 

> commitment to the community and the process.

>

> However, with you and your echo chamber and despite the cutesy 

> introductions when I first raised my concern - I have never met you, 

> never been on a call with you, don’t know what network you operate or 

> your technical expertise. I don’t have any inclination of your 

> perspective or motivation.

>

> As such, it seems that your (collective) motivation is to manipulate 

> the process towards a particular objective.

>

> This is not the first time the mailing list has been manipulated and I 

> am sure it won’t be the last. Some people I call (or used to call) 

> friends have used sock puppets to manipulate process and spew hatred.

>

> I am calling it out here because I think we have a problem that we 

> have just swept under the rug before - we allow identities without 

> confirmation to participate.

>

> For example - ICANN working groups have developed a “statement of 

> interest” requirement for participation that tries to filter sock 

> puppets and force disclosure of interest.

>

> I think that the situation in the PDP has become so toxic that a 

> similar requirement may be necessary.

>

> Mike

>

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 04:58, lucilla fornaro 

> <lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com 

> <mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>     Dear Mike,

>

>     Let me understand your point of view.

>     So, agreeing with someone else means belonging to a “puppet echo

>     chamber” (which is an insult itself!)?

>

>     You talk about respect and objectiveness when you are insinuating

>     the false and lacking respect for anyone who has a different

>     opinion from you.

>

>     This is not a private talk at a coffee shop, you cannot cut out

>     from the conversation people who disagree with you. You are

>     accusing some members of pushing a proposal you disagree with and

>     according to you, this means we belong to a kind of strange

>     conspiracy gang. If I had a lot of free time I may end up thinking

>     you are doing exactly the same by rejecting it.

>

>     Luckily, this is not a cult, this Afrinic and surprise surprise,

>     Afrinic is a welcoming open community where DIFFERENT OPINIONS are

>     not only accepted but encouraged.

>

>     Members have been consistently asking for more time and once

>     they’ve received it they KEPT COMPLAINING because they now want

>     something else. So my question is, what game are you playing?

>     Because if there is something suspicious here, it comes from you

>     and those who are equally confused about what they want. At least,

>     my ideas are explicit.

>

>     I think there are enough childish quarrels, if you are really

>     genuinely interested in Afrinic it is time to accept that someone

>     may disagree with you.

>

>     regards,

>

>     Lucilla

>

>     Il giorno dom 18 ott 2020 alle ore 20:47 Mike Silber

>     <silber.mike at gmail.com <mailto:silber.mike at gmail.com>> ha scritto:

>

>         Lamiaa

>

>         Thanks for confirming (yet again) to the list members that you

>         and several others seem to serve as an echo chamber for each

>         other and for little other purpose - other than an attempt to

>         manipulate the PDP.

>

>         Objectively there was nothing offensive or constituting a

>         personal attack in what Fernando said and attempting to

>         amplify that lie is offensive to all of us who engage in

>         robust discussion on this list.

>

>         As for your opinions on the appeal, frankly they are

>         irrelevant. Hopefully the appeal committee will be objective

>         and not manipulated by your echo chamber.

>

>         While I appreciate the co-chairs extension of the last call

>         period, as others have pointed out, the extension does not

>         substantively change the decision against which the appeal has

>         been lodged.

>

>         Mike

>

>         Sitting back and waiting for the flames from the sock puppet

>         echo chamber

>

>         On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 at 12:35, Lamiaa Chnayti

>         <lamiaachnayti at gmail.com <mailto:lamiaachnayti at gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>             Hello Fernando,

>

>             First of all, I would like to report to the chairs your

>             improper behaviour that consists of personally attacking

>             and offending Lucilla. This should be taken seriously and

>             shouldn’t go unnoticed so as to maintain a fair and

>             sensible discussion on the list.

>

>             I would also like to point out that now that the chairs

>             have amended their decision, the appeal has become invalid.

>

>             Please start showing a little respect for what the chairs

>             are doing. Everything they voluntarily do is for the sake

>             of this community.

>

>             Regards,

>

>             Lamiaa

>

>             Le dim. 18 oct. 2020 à 00:20, Fernando Frediani

>             <fhfrediani at gmail.com <mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>> a écrit :

>

>                 Do not deceive yourself. There is an appeal ongoing

>                 before any possible ratification.

>

>                 Fernando

>

>

>                 On Sat, 17 Oct 2020, 20:12 lucilla fornaro,

>                 <lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com

>                 <mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>                     No, what I meant is that we’ve been discussing for

>                     weeks, the end of the last call has been already

>                     announced.

>                     Co-chairs shouldn’t make any changes to that

>                     decision. The policy shall now move to ratification.

>

>

>                     Regards,

>

>                     Lucilla

>

>

>

>

>

>                     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>                     *Da:* dc at darwincosta.com

>                     <mailto:dc at darwincosta.com> <dc at darwincosta.com

>                     <mailto:dc at darwincosta.com>>

>                     *Inviato:* domenica, ottobre 18, 2020 2:49 AM

>                     *A:* lucilla fornaro

>                     *Cc:* ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE; rpd List

>                     *Oggetto:* Re: [rpd] Reversal of Consensus on

>                     Resource Transfer Policy

>

>>                     On 17 Oct 2020, at 19:36, lucilla fornaro

>>                     <lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com

>>                     <mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto at gmail.com>> wrote:

>>

>>                     

>>                     Dear Co-chair, dear community,

>>

>>                     I disagree with this extension of one week. I

>>                     don’t see how this further week can do any good

>>                     to a discussion that has already reached its

>>                     purpose.

>>                     It is clear that the community members have had

>>                     exhaustive time to discuss the policy.

>>

>>                     The end of the last call for this policy has

>>                     already been declared and we should keep moving

>>                     forward from that.

>                     I guess you meant send it back to discussion? I

>                     have previously asked the Co-chair to share with

>                     the community facts & figures on how this proposal

>                     have reached consensus... Until now, we have not

>                     seen nothing on this regards...

>

>                     Luckily there is an appeal submitted.

>>

>>

>>                     Regards,

>>

>>                     Lucilla

>

>                     Regards,

>                     Darwin-.

>

>>                     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>                     *Da:* ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE

>>                     <oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng

>>                     <mailto:oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng>>

>>                     *Inviato:* domenica, ottobre 18, 2020 1:03 AM

>>                     *A:* rpd List

>>                     *Oggetto:* [rpd] Reversal of Consensus on

>>                     Resource Transfer Policy

>>                     Dear colleagues,

>>

>>                     Despite our belief that this policy has covered

>>                     almost all of the concerns raised especially the

>>                     major objections, we would like to give the

>>                     community more time to discern after considering

>>                     the community's feedback on the consensus

>>                     declared on the Resource Transfer Polic.

>>

>>                     We, the co-chairs, have changed our decision and

>>                     opt to extend the last call for one more week for

>>                     prudence's sake.

>>

>>                     Thank you.

>>

>>                     Co-Chair

>>                     PDWG

>>

>>

>>                     Website <http://www.unilorin.edu.ng>,Weekly

>>                     Bulletin

>>                     <http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/index.php/bulletin>

>>                     UGPortal <http://uilugportal.unilorin.edu.ng/>

>>                     PGPortal <https://uilpgportal.unilorin.edu.ng/>

>>

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>

>             -- 

>             Lamiaa CHNAYTI

>

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-- 

Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
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