[rpd] Reciprocity of the inter-RIR transfer policies

[Joshua J. Onuh]

HI all,

I Would like to think both you, Jordi and Marcus are right. Since we are
all working for the greater good of the internet's connectivity and its
stability within the region, it would be best for everyone to stop making
claims of ownership to what is right or wrong. However, from the feedback
gotten from other RIRs, it is now clear on where we stand on this proposal
and what we need to do next, so let's work cordially in that direction.

Simply J.James Onuh

On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 22:09, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>
wrote:


> Hi Marcus,

>

>

>

> You’re totally missing the point. Please review the videos from Luanda and

> the recent meeting, and also the mailing list. Ask the staff if I’ve tried

> to work in a single proposal with the other authors, etc. All what I said

> is demonstrated.

>

>

>

> If I’ve asked the authors of other proposals and the staff to look into

> that, was precisly so those proposals are useful.

>

>

>

> I’ve said **many times** that I don’t care if this or the other proposal

> is the one that reach consensus, it is not about authors, it is about

> getting the best for the community, but which a proposal that **works**.

> In fact, I offered all the other authors to work together and there was no

> response. So who is thinking in “self interest”?

>

>

>

> What I can’t admit is people telling in public to me “you are a lier, you

> are trying to dimish the other proposals”. I was always saying the true,

> and what my email is saying is that it has been demonstrated I said the

> true. That’s it.

>

>

>

> Maturity is to trust people when they tell you “look the way you are

> trying to do your proposal is not reciprocal, I tried that already, you

> should check with the other RIRs”.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> El 9/10/20 22:08, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" <madomey at hotmail.com> escribió:

>

>

>

> Hi Jordi,

>

>

>

> Please let us show some maturity and avoid this self interest attitudes.

>

>

>

> It is not about who win or who loose between the proposals being

> discussed. In facts all the three proposals have issues so your claim that

> “you are right and others are useless” may itself be problematic for WG

>

>

>

> The discussions about  inter-rir  policy is also not about following other

> regions or a particular RIR. It is more about making the right decision

> about which suits the best interest of this region at this time while we

> prepare for the future

>

>

>

> All decisions have to be made by the WG/ Community.

>

>

>

> Time will come when all proposals must be owned by the WG and changes

> driven by consensus...

>

>

>

>

>

> Marcus

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> *From:* JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net>

> *Sent:* Friday, October 9, 2020 3:58:31 PM

> *To:* Madhvi Gokool <madhvi at afrinic.net>; rpd at afrinic.net <rpd at afrinic.net

> >

> *Subject:* Re: [rpd] Reciprocity of the inter-RIR transfer policies

>

>

>

> Hi Madhvi,

>

>

>

> I think this makes clear that I was right, as I always indicated that the

> other 2 proposal were not reciprocal, so they become useless.

>

>

>

> Regarding your point on the ASN transfer in my proposal, I will wait for

> further clarification with APNIC,  but the intent was bi-directional with

> any RIR (that allows it), like for IPv4. Anyway, if the ASN is an issue, as

> I tried just to follow the staff recommendations to resolve that according

> to your PIER’s, the easier way to resolve that is to make it in a different

> proposal, so we could resolve the IPv4 issue first, then ASN and even IPv6

> in another one. That may help to reach consensus in each topic.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Jordi

>

> @jordipalet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> El 9/10/20 17:07, "Madhvi Gokool" <madhvi at afrinic.net> escribió:

>

>

>

> Dear PDWG

>

> AFRINIC has received partial feedback to its query and would like to

> report on the feedback received to the community.  To note that the

> proposal   AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 was also shared with the RIRs when it

> was submitted in Sep 2020.

>

> 1.    ARIN has responded that the Resource Transfer Policy is not

> compatible with their inter-RIR transfer policies because of the following

> statement therein - *“The source must be the current rights holder of the

> IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR and shall be in compliance

> with the policies of the receiving RIR.”* would require a source in the

> ARIN region to comply with AFRINIC RIR policies.

>

> AFRINIC - You will find  that both AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 &

> AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03, versions that were shared with the RIRs contain

> this statement.

>

>

>

> 2.    APNIC has responded that for

>

> a.    AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 - Resource Transfer Policy (Draft-3), the

> APNIC inter-RIR policy is not compatible with the current text, especially

> “The source must be the current rights holder of the IPv4 address resources

> registered with any RIR and shall be in compliance with the policies of the

> receiving RIR.”

>

> AFRINIC - You will find  that AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 version that was

> shared with the RIRs also contain this statement.

>

>

>

> b.     AFPUB-2019-GEN-002-DRAFT02 - AFRINIC Number Resources Transfer

> Policy

>

>  "Only Legacy resources and resources transferred in from other regions

> will be transferable out of the AFRINIC service region."

>

> Not compatible as it is not fully reciprocal and bi-directional in nature.

> The proposal only allows transfer of legacy resources and resources that

> been transferred into AFRINIC, and NOT resources from the AFRINIC pool. In

> principle, APNIC allows outgoing transfer of resources from the APNIC pool,

> but has a 5-year transfer restriction for 103/8 space.

>

> c.    AFPUB-2019-IPv4-002-DRAFT04 - IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers

> (Comprehensive Scope) Draft-4

>

> Compatible for IPv4 Inter-RIR transfers. However there is ambiguity about

> APNIC to AFRINIC ASN transfers. We understand the text below allows

> transfer of ASNs out of AFRINIC region if they meet certain conditions.

> Does it imply transfer of incoming ASNs into AFRINIC is allowed?

>

> "5.7.4 Transfer of ASN with IPv4 Resources

>

>

>

> At the AFRINIC discretion, in the case where over 50% of the IPv4

> resources associated with an ASN are being transferred, that ASN may also

> be transferred at the same time."

>

> AFRINIC - We shall clarify this with APNIC as from next week.

>

>

>

>

>

> To conclude , please note that as we receive further updates from the

> RIRs, we shall keep the working group informed.  Should the authors of the

> 3 policy proposals require further inputs and clarifications  regarding

> reciprocity/compatibility, we recommend  that they submit same to

> pdwg at afrinic.net . We shall then do the needful and liaise with the RIRs.

>

> We have also noted that a latest version of Resource Transfer Policy was

> submitted to the list . To maintain the consistency , the

> reciprocity/compatibility with the other inter-RIR transfer policies will

> be sought.

>

>

>

> Regards

>

> Madhvi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On 23/09/2020 9:51 AM, Madhvi Gokool wrote:

>

>  Dear PDWG

>

> During the Policy discussions in the AFRINIC-32 PPM  on 17 Sep 2020, there

> was a debate regarding the reciprocity of one inter-RIR transfer policy

> proposal with ARIN. The Policy Liaison had responded that since there are 3

> policy proposals under discussion and that two of them had undergone

> revision in 2020 , AFRINIC shall contact ARIN to get their authoritative

> response in regard to the reciprocity of all the *3 proposals*.

>

> Since the  LACNIC, RIPE and APNIC RIRs all have inter-RIR transfer

> policies, and we, AFRINIC do not have their assessment of the reciprocity

> of the 3 policy proposals under discussion on record,  AFRINIC has

> therefore reached out to all  4 RIRs to  get their inputs regarding the

> reciprocity of the* three *policy proposals that were discussed in the

> AFRINIC PPM last week.

>

> We shall update you once we have received the updates from the  4 RIRs. "

>

> Kind Regards

>

> Madhvi

>

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> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or

> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of

> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized

> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this

> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly

> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the

> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including

> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal

> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this

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