[rpd] (no subject)

[Fernando Frediani]

Hello

While I fully understand what you say and your concerns, I see that the 
community is not been able to move towards a solution and what makes it 
difficult is how short PDP has been about elections. If there is not 
solution how can we stand ? Keep things like they are until they get 
worse and worse. That must be a solution to this difficult and yet 
unknown scenario.
As a last resource I find reasonable that the RIR Board conduct things 
that are unclear or missing in the PDP, otherwise the Internet in the 
region is the one to loose from it and therefore everybody. In other RIR 
Board has been the ultimate place to resolve the most difficult points 
similar to this.
Jordi's proposal was not unanimously rejected. Please be careful to use 
this word here. It has been used by others recently as pure 
exaggeration. But I don't think this is about his proposal.

Agree the Charis should have a more active role in trying to resolve 
this issue. However one of them seems to be nominated to continue, which 
makes the things more difficult.

It makes a lot of sense that not everybody can take part on any decision 
or election, otherwise it open a wide door to fraud which makes this 
forum a even worse place.

Regards
Fernando

On 06/08/2020 16:06, Benjamin Investor wrote:

> Dear Jordi,

> Thank you for your email. Thank you for mentioning the fact that 

> election is a community issue. The board has no role in PDP process 

> execpt to approve the final proposal sent to them by the chairs. what 

> process is the board setting up?  We need to be very careful here.  

> Today you are proposing that the board should dictate how PDWG 

> election should be conducted so that your proposal that was 

> unanimously rejected be passed through the back door. Untill when the 

> process is passed by the community it cannot be implemented.

> What I can see here is an attempt by AFRINIC to connive with Jordi and 

> his friends to pass a policy unanimously rejected by the community 

> through the back door in the name of COVID 19. Online elections are 

> allowed by the current policy but it must be carried out as specified 

> in the election guideline circulated when we opened nomination and the 

> current policy.

> Jodie you said the PDP does not tell us how to conduct elections. Can 

> you answer the following questions

> 1. Who has the power to varry the PDP process. Has the CEO and the 

> board carried the co chairs along in these process.? If yes then they 

> should come out and tell us that they are varring the process.

> 2. Does the PDP define who the members of the PDWG are

> 3. Does the PDP tell us who are the members of the WG who can elect 

> the chair?

> Please read the policy manual and answer these questions honestly.

> I think the co chairs needs to come out and tell us the correct 

> position of things.

> Co chairs, it is your responsibility to determine how the election is 

> going to be conducted. You have the sole right to varry the process. 

> Please do not allow the likes of Jordi to come and carry out a coup 

> here. Your job is to guide the community as dictated by the policy 

> manual. Co chairs you can't sit on the fence on this issue cos it's an 

> attempt to ridicle the PDP process through the back door.

>

> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 4:50 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD 

> <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>> wrote:

>

>     Hi Benjamin,

>

>     There is something that you’re probably missing.

>

>     The PDP is short in the elections. The PDP doesn't state how the

>     elections are done, only a very generic framework, so in that case

>     all is up to the Board.

>

>     The Board decided at some point to setup a process, and

>     consequently the board is the one to modify the process.

>

>     While I agree that this process should be managed by the

>     community, in this situation we can’t do that, so we should keep

>     the process in the way the Board decided and work towards a real

>     community decided process.

>

>     This is why, without having the crystal ball and consequently not

>     knowing about the coming Covid-19 pandemic, in November 2019, we

>     started to work in a complete proposal for this “*Chairs Elections

>     Process*”:

>

>     https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-gen-007-d1#proposal

>

>     The authors are right now working in updating this proposal, so I

>     will suggest that we could invest some time in discussing it, so

>     we can send a new version in a few days.

>

>     Regards,

>

>     Jordi

>

>     @jordipalet

>

>     El 6/8/20 17:33, "Benjamin Investor" <investor0189 at gmail.com

>     <mailto:investor0189 at gmail.com>> escribió:

>

>     Dear CEO,

>

>     Thank you for the email and the wonderful job you have been doing

>     since appointed. However regarding your email, I totally disagree

>     with you based on the following

>

>     1. The guiding book of PDWG is the CPM and not the CEO's decision.

>

>     2. The CPM is clear on who is a member of the PDWG. The CPM states

>     clearly that Any person who has joined the making list is a member

>     of if the working group.

>

>     3. The CPM is also clear the chair is elected by members of the

>     working group.

>

>     4. There is no where in the CPM where there is a 6 months rule on

>     voting therefore the rule cannot be created now. You cannot change

>     the goalpost at the middle of the game. The election guideline

>     issues at the time of nomination process is very clear as to how

>     the election would take place. This is by shoe of hand. Show of

>     hand can also be done online

>

>     5. How can the AFRNIC determine that the increase in mailing list

>     is because of elections. We all know that as a result of COVID 19

>     everyone is now moving online are you saying we would not deny

>     this people the option to vote? We definitely cannot do that. For

>     example I have been on the mailing list in the past and I opted

>     out because of all the confusing and abuse always happening and I

>     joined back again last week are you now going to deny me  and

>     others like me the opportunity to vote? This seams like an attempt

>     by AFRINIC to rig the election in favour of the some groups.

>

>     6. You made reference to other RIR can you please mention one RIR

>     that has the 6 months rule in place before Thier online election. ?

>

>     7. I think AFRINIC needs to be careful. AFRINIC staff is expected

>     to be neutral in all cases and if Afrinic staff are now judging

>     new members as to Thier motive of joining the WG this is not ideal.

>

>     Thank you

>

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