[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Cloud Innovation Displays Very Poor, If Not Criminal, Netizenship

[Noah]

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 10:02 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:


>

>

> On May 31, 2020, at 11:40 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>

>

See inline....



> We were not faced with a choice between “Implement transfer markets or

>> not.” We were faced with a choice of “Recognize transfer markets and

>> regulate them or ensure that they are black markets and that the RIR

>> system and its IPv4 policies become irrelevant to the actual operation of

>> the internet.”

>>

>

> And black markets still exist nonetheless (a failure of responsible audits

> and accountability) irrespective of existing transfer markets imho.

>

>

> Most of the places where black markets exist with any significance are

> places with unreasonably restrictive transfer policies. It’s not so much a

> failure of responsible audits and

> accountability as a failure of policy to adapt to reality.

>


The AfriNIC region has an IPv4 transfer within the AfriNIC region policy
[link 1]  where under section 5.7 there are provisions that permit
transfers of IPv4 address space within Africa, therefore one would not
claim that there are unreasonable restrictions.

But if responsible audits were to be attempted to ensure compliance and
accountability that would go to resolve the apparent black market.


People are seeing the current overly restrictive transfer policy in the

> AfriNIC region as damage and routing around it.

>


Well the AfriNIC Bylaws [link 2] Section 3 [Objectives of the Company], sub
section (iii) below ensures;

*(iii) to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout
the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of
Internet infrastructures;*

Surely, AfriNIC as a company can not just  forget its own responsibility as
bestowed to her in the Bylaws. The people who are seeing this as overly
restrictive should understand that we can not break our own rules/laws and
I don't see how such restrictions are a damage if they are meant to ensure
that number resources within the AfriNIC region are put to good use for the
purpose they were requested for in order to develop the Internet in Africa.



> So now we have folks with capital spending most of their energy moving

>> IPv4 address space all over the place since its a currency that ensures

>> serious economic benefits.

>>

>>

>> If you know of a way to stop this, I’m all ears.

>>

>

> Impossible to stop economic activities.

>

>

> Thus, we felt it was better in the ARIN region to provide reasonable

> accommodation while still preserving useful aspects of regulation. I think

> we have achieved

> a good balance there and that there’s relatively little black market

> movement of IPv4 resources in the ARIN region which has also made it

> possible to have

> better accountability (for example the recent reclamation of a large

> quantity of improperly transferred address space).

>


What works in ARIN may not necessarily work in the AfrNIC region but there
are currently some policy proposals the working group are looking at within
AfriNIC. We shall see how that goes as we adhere to our Bylaws.



> Faced with the business externalities that they are, they really have no

>> choice but to try

>> and acquire enough IPv4 to support customer demand for as long as

>> possible. I can assure you that each of them would love to see customer

>> demand for IPv4 go away.

>>

>

> Hence my point that both shall co-exist for years. So we cant devalue IPv4

> in an attempt to promote IPv6 and this is why responsible management of

> IPv4 space must be ensured.

>

>

> Nobody said that devaluing IPv4 was a way to promote IPv6… We said that

> deploying IPv6 would devalue IPv4.

>


Ok understood, but my point was that the deployment of IPv6 is not a clear
cut process as folks seem to suggest since the decisions are internal for
each entity.



>> OTOH, IPv6 is available to the vast majority of eyeballs in the US.

>> Comcast has 100% IPv6 coverage, as do most of the major cellular carriers.

>> AIUI, the other major

>> eyeball ISPs in the US are fast approaching that.

>>

>

> One can attribute different factors to such outcomes beyond just the US.

>

>

> I cited the US as an example because it is the market with which I have

> the greatest familiarity. If you want another good example outside of the

> US, look at the current rate of IPv6 adoption around India.

>

> Globally, Google is seeing more than 30% of their traffic via IPv6. The

> prime laggards according to their map are northern Asia, Russia, Greenland,

> the Middle East, and the vast majority of Africa.

>

> In fact, Africa is by far, the least deployed continent for IPv6, with

> notable exceptions in Togo and Gabon and problematic deployments in Kenya

> and Burundi.

>

> I think you will see spontaneous deployment of IPv6 across China in the

> near future. Being as all the major ISPs in China are essentially one

> organization owned by the government, when the mandate finally comes,

> implementation and deployment will be quite rapid.

>


I like the "you will see spontaneous deployment of IPv6" part of your
response but IPv4 is still useful for a while.



>

>

>> Atleast this is how I see it. Capitalism at its best.

>>

>>

>> Or one of the finest examples of how capitalism is nearly as flawed as

>> the alternatives.

>>

>

> No system is perfect after all.

>

>

> Agreed… But people love to tout th failures of socialism while often

> ignoring those same failures in a different form in capitalism.

>

> In socialism, the lack of reward for effort and the lack of incentive to

> rise above is cited quite often.

> In capitalism, the failure to tie reward and/or incentive to a greater

> good is mostly overlooked. The concept of perverse incentives occasionally

> gets mentioned, but usually in arguing for deregulation which often

> exacerbates the most harmful perverse incentives.

>


The take away for me is that both have pros and cons however, for any
industry to thrive in either systems, raw-materials are extremely important
since they form part of the means of production. Textile factories in both
a socialist and capitalist systems would still require Cotton as a raw
material.

In our case within the Internet Industry, IPv4 addresses (just like IPv6)
are the scarce resources which form part of the means of production for the
final service the Internet. As such, responsible management of INR is akeen
to the promotion and development of the Internet Industry in Africa which
so many on the continent have come to rely on to sell their labor, research
& education, economic activities, social life etc.

Cheers,
Noah

[link 1]
https://www.afrinic.net/about/bylaws/2001-afrinic-bylaws-2016?start=2
[link 2] https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-1-3?view=article&id=1606
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