[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Cloud Innovation Displays Very Poor, If Not Criminal, Netizenship

[Noah]

On Sun, 31 May 2020, 20:11 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com> wrote:


>

>

> On May 31, 2020, at 00:27 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>

>

>

> On Sun, 31 May 2020, 05:16 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>

>> IPv4 only continues to have value as long as eyeballs and content are not

>> available on IPv6.

>>

>

> And the process to make both eyeballs and content available on IPv6 is a

> spontaneous one. We ought to consciously acknowledge this fact.

>

>

> Not sure what you mean by your use of the word “spontaneous” here. In the

> words of Enigo Montoya… “I do not think it means what you think it means.”

>


Trees/plants/humans dont grow up in one day. The process itself is
unnoticeable depending on the prevailing conditions and Time (could be
months or years).  Growth is a spontaneous [1] process.

We tried to encourage customers to deploy IPv6 and those who attempted to
do it, did so at their own pace.



>

> So… The statement that spending our energy migrating to IPv6 will devalue

>> IPv4 is 100% accurate.

>>

>

> I never disagreed with that statement.

>

> One can argue that the introduction of IPv4 transfer markets just ensured

> the process to migrate to IPv6 become a joke.

>

>

> One can argue just about anything. However, in reality, like it or not

> (and I don’t, I think my record on that is pretty clear), transfer markets

> were a reality

> we were faced with regardless of whether RIR policy chose to recognize

> them or not.

>

> 1. Nothing in existing RIR policy precluded derivatives (options),

> leasing, etc.

> 2. Nothing in existing RIR policy was going to prevent off-books

> transfers where sufficient monetary incentive existed.

>

> We were not faced with a choice between “Implement transfer markets or

> not.” We were faced with a choice of “Recognize transfer markets and

> regulate them or ensure that they are black markets and that the RIR

> system and its IPv4 policies become irrelevant to the actual operation of

> the internet.”

>


And black markets still exist nonetheless (a failure of responsible audits
and accountability) irrespective of existing transfer markets imho.



> So now we have folks with capital spending most of their energy moving

> IPv4 address space all over the place since its a currency that ensures

> serious economic benefits.

>

>

> If you know of a way to stop this, I’m all ears.

>


Impossible to stop economic activities.



> Amazon (AWS) and Microsoft (Azure) and others alike for instance have been

> buying so much IPv4 space in recent years from this transfer markets.

>

>

> I’ll point out that each of the groups you mention have also been

> deploying IPv6.

>


Ack

Faced with the business externalities that they are, they really have no

> choice but to try

> and acquire enough IPv4 to support customer demand for as long as

> possible. I can assure you that each of them would love to see customer

> demand for IPv4 go away.

>


Hence my point that both shall co-exist for years. So we cant devalue IPv4
in an attempt to promote IPv6 and this is why responsible management of
IPv4 space must be ensured.



> One also just cant force eyeballs all over the place to deploy IPv6 unless

> content folks went full regalia and made content only available on IPv6

> while risking IPv4 revenue.

>

>

> That day is coming one way or another… Eventually, we will see a point

> where there simply aren’t any more IPv4 addresses available for new content

> providers, or, we

> will have depleted the available IPv4 addresses for eyeballs.

>


No doubt.



> OTOH, IPv6 is available to the vast majority of eyeballs in the US.

> Comcast has 100% IPv6 coverage, as do most of the major cellular carriers.

> AIUI, the other major

> eyeball ISPs in the US are fast approaching that.

>


One can attribute different factors to such outcomes beyond just the US.



> (In the case of fixed wired ISPs, that is IPv6 is available to any

> subscriber whose CPE supports it and who hasn’t deliberately turned it off).

>


There is that too.



> Atleast this is how I see it. Capitalism at its best.

>

>

> Or one of the finest examples of how capitalism is nearly as flawed as the

> alternatives.

>


No system is perfect after all.

Noah
[1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/spontaneous
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