[rpd] PDP issues because the lack of the confirmation of dates for the new PPM

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ]

Hi AK, all,

 

I think that here there is a mix of non-native speakers (including myself), different laws (I’m basing my observations in the one that I know, from Spain) and probably, with all the respect, some misinterpretation from your side.

 

We have discussed this not just in this RIR, but also in others. We have people contributing form different parts of the world, with different cultures and native languages, so even if for you or myself a word is correct, may be incorrect for others and *that that can’t mean a violation of the list code of conduct*, because otherwise, this could be even worse, a restriction of free speech.

 

If I was using language for an “ad hominem”, such as it has been done in a face to face meetings to me or in the list

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009470.html, 

 

“The British/South Africa Mark Elkins, the candidate of election, wants to

become the co-chair of PDWG. His mission as co-chair is to push for the

policy “IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)” proposed

by Spanish or Latino Jordi Palet Martinez. The issue with this policy is

clear. There is no more IPv4 in the other registry, only AFRINIC has IPv4

in its pool. The policy of Jordy has the hidden agenda is to enable the

South African (not all of them) mafia to ransack the AFRINIC. It is not a

secret that Mark Elkins was one of those who oppose the creation of

AFRINIC. No wonder why his acolyte Owen Delong always defends him even if

his is blatantly wrong. What is interesting yesterday was Owen with the

help of some Ugandans he recruited some boys and girls to come and vote for

Mark Elkins and to support of oppose policies. They were brought by Owen

himself who was instructing the AFRINIC registration desk in Sheraton Hotel

to register them. When they were asked about what they are coming to do,

they said they are coming to vote for IPv4. I personally witnessed this.”

 

… then you can tell me that I’m acting against the code of conduct, but IT IS NOT THE CASE.

 

It should be noticed also, that the code of conduct has not been applied against the people involved in those “ad hominem” that I exposed here, and even if I’ve asked the board to take actions to take legal actions so the community is respected and we set the correct precedent, and was never done, even if we know who is the real person after “Benjamin Ledoh”, because it was clearly demonstrated.

 

This is unfair, and it could be also a discrimination if persons or groups are treated in a different way. This is what discrimination means. Nothing different, you can disagree, but just find any dictionary. I picked up one randomly using google:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/discriminatory


Meaning of discriminatory in English

 

discriminatory

adjective

UK 

 /dɪˈskrɪm.ɪ.nə.tər.i/ US 

 /dɪˈskrɪm.ə.nə.tɔːr.i/

 

treating a person or group differently from and usually worse than other people, because of their skin colour, sex, sexuality, etc.:

Business leaders must take a stand against discriminatory practices.

She criticizes what she sees as discriminatory treatment of overweight people.

He argued that the justice system was racially discriminatory.

See

discriminate

 More examples
We see it as a very unfair and discriminatory tax on our industry.
He criticized what he called their discriminatory immigration policy.
Students claimed the all-male society was discriminatory against women.
This legislation is blatantly discriminatory.
 Thesaurus: synonyms and related words

(Definition of discriminatory from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus © Cambridge University Press)

discriminatory | AMERICAN DICTIONARY

discriminatory

adjective

US 

 /dɪˈskrɪm·ə·nəˌtɔr·i, -ˌtoʊr·i/

 

unfairly treating a person or particular group of people differently from others:

discriminatory practices

(Definition of discriminatory from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary © Cambridge University Press)

discriminatory | BUSINESS ENGLISH

discriminatory

adjective

UK 

 /dɪˈskrɪmɪnətəri/ US 

 /dɪˈskrɪmɪnətɔri/

 

treating particular people, companies, or products differently from others, especially in an unfair way:

The EU has already denounced the new regulations as discriminatory.

Several hundred Sikh women complained about discriminatory treatment by the company.

discriminatory laws/legislation/measures

discriminatory policies/practices

(Definition of discriminatory from the Cambridge Business English Dictionary © Cambridge University Press)

 

 

Furthermore, for the previous appeal, as Noah indicated, there was a different treatment between both appeals:

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/010601.html

How do you call this?

 

Regarding “1. "Criminal" Appeal committee”, it is taken out of context, and then it has a totally different meaning. My text was very very very clear:

“… regarding the criminal appeal committee aggression to the PDP discriminating authors of proposals by not allowing them to be part of the community for an appeal as indicated in 3.5.1 of the CPM …” and I still maintain it. This is not against any specific person but a process. It is not an “ad hominem”. They are following a ToR wich is the one doing a discrimination, and in my country, on many countries this is criminal, at least is the way we describe it every other day.

 

Even more, our code of conduct say it (https://www.afrinic.net/code):

II.                   “Avoid behaviour or remarks that give offence or discriminate based on gender, sexual orientation, religion, race or ethnic origin, language, or other perceived social, cultural, or personal differences.”

VII.       “Respect language differences …”

 

The ToR is making differences amongs groups of people.

I’m using my own language, because I’m not native english, it should be respected.

 

If, in the future, I need to use any word that in my natural language is just fine, I will do it as usual, not to attack anyone, but to clarify, expose or whatever, process issues. If you or anyone from the community requires further explanation as I did this time, I’m fine. However, if anytone believes that I’m acting against the code of conduct and take actions to restrict my rights, I will then clearly use also my freedom to escale it up to the courts if needed, because I really bealieve that restricting people from speaking freely is the worst thing we can do in the entire world.

 

Again, I’m complaining about the process, the ToR, not persons. I’m not even asking about any specific appeal, but in general about the ToR of the Appeal Committee.

 

The committees can’t restrict/amend what is indicated in the PDP and the chairs are warantoors of that.

 

If neither the chairs or the board recognize that the PDP is being aggredded and this causes any kind of discrimination to community members (again, read discrimination as “treating differently” this is what it means, and in this case is treating differently those that congribute as authors from the rest of the community), we have problem.

 

So, to quit this but make something useful. Can we agree that the ToR is aggredding the PDP and should be amended or alternatively those that believe that the ToR is correct should send a policy proposal to amend the PDP?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 7/5/20 20:01, "ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE" <oloyede.aa at unilorin.edu.ng> escribió:

 

Dear Fernando,

 

1. "Criminal" Appeal committee  

2. Unjustified use of the word Discrimination.    

Thanks 

AK

 

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:30 PM Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Abdulkarim

Please let all us know which exact words Jordi used on his message that violated the code of conduct so we can all be aware and avoid it in future messages.

Best regards
Fernando

On 07/05/2020 10:58, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE wrote:

Dear Jordi

You have raised some critical question for us all to think about I am sure you do not expect a stright forward response to your questions as you know Africa is different from Latin America in a lot of ways. 

   Secondly, in your last email, you used some words that are not acceptable.  We (Co-chairs) are sure that you are aware of the code of conduct concerning the use of such statements on the PDWG making list or during the Policy meeting.  Such statements are unacceptable, and this is a formal warning that you should refrain from the use of such words. We understand that you are not satisfied with the appeal, but there are ways in which this can be resolved. As far as we Co-chairs are concerned the ruling of the appeal committe means that our decision was upheld, meaning the policy proposal goes back to the discussion stage. This should not result in you using unacceptable language; rather, you should put your energy into convincing the community about the policy during the next Policy meeting.

Please be warned.

Thank you 

 

Co-Chair

PDWG

 

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 8:59 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net> wrote:

Hi all,

Because the dates of the next Public Policy Meeting (PPM) are unknown, there is a problem with the PDP in several aspects:

1) Deadlines for new policy proposals are unknown.
2) Deadlines for new versions of existing policy proposals are unknown.
3) Co-chair elections timing is unknown.

Further to that, the lack of response on the board and the co-chairs, regarding the criminal appeal comitte agression to the PDP discriminating authors of proposals by not allowing them to be part of the community for an appeal as indicated in 3.5.1 of the CPM, also creates an additional trouble. We are in a limbo state with this proposal. Should we accept the aggression to the PDP and send the existing text again? On what timing basis? Should we ask the co-chairs to make sure that the PDP is respected? Should the board take an action on that?

It is a must to know *NOW* (already too close to the 4 weeks deadline) if we are going to hold a on-line PPM in the same dates as originally scheduled, or what is the new date, or if we will just have one meeting this year, with the same dates as already scheduled?

The Covid-19 is affecting everyone, and it is very sad, but most of our work is done ir can be done remotelly. There are no excuses to avoid continuing doing our work, but we need to get an *urgent* confirmation from the co-chairs and board about all the matters I've indicated above.

As a side note, all the other RIRs (and the IETF and ICANN already did) are doing the meetings on-line. In fact, today we have the equivalent to the PPM for LACNIC. The only issue is a reduced agenda, so only 3 policy proposals are being discussed, and still there will be consensus determination for them.

By the way if you're interested to participate in the LACNIC, there is simultaneous english/portuguess/spanish transcription and anyone can participate: https://www.lacnic.net/4191/56/evento/welcome-to-lacnic-33-online. The agenda of the PPM is here: https://www.lacnic.net/4487/56/evento/open-policy-forum.


Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet





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