[rpd] Larus foundation and Afrinic PDP

[Owen DeLong]

> On Feb 20, 2020, at 06:04 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

> 

> Owen,

> 

> We will have to agree to disagree.

> 

> Nothing personal here.  This community is discussing a special threat to its PDP  and the management of scarce IPv4 resources meant to be used to develop Internet networks in our region.


There is no threat to the PDP (other than how incredibly poorly it is documented).

There is no threat to the management of IPv4 resources, either.


> It's not surprising if you don't see things as some of us from the region do, which is normal considering your origin and the conflict of Interest you find yourself in.


You continue to accuse me of a conflict of interest which simply does not exist.


> What we expect from a senior community member and an ARIN AC member is more advocacy of best practices and technical leadership. Naturally, in a conflict situation the option of recusing oneself may be more prudent than this back and forth.


If you believe that what I am advocating does not represent best practices or technical leadership, then take issue specifically with the areas where you feel I’ve expressed an incorrect point of view and let’s argue the relative merits of our positions.

Continuing to engage in accusations of conflict of interest in an effort to dissuade me from participating in the PDP is a greater threat to the PDP and to the sound management of resources than anything I could say.


> We wish to empower the organisation to do the right things and encourage members to collaborate, submit to review, show compliance to policies and other regulations and protect the PDP.


The only legitimate way to empower the organization is through good policy. I’m all for good policy.

I’ve been supportive of several good policies even recently.

I realize you think that the resource review policy is a good one. We obviously agree to disagree on that. I’ve stated my reasons… It is my considered (and as you point out rather well experienced) opinion that the policy as written is a convenient way to weaponize AfriNIC as a denial of service attack against larger organizations even if they are legitimately managing their resources according to AfriNIC policy. My opposition has nothing to do with Larus. I was opposed to this before I had any relationship with Larus.

At first, I tried to be genial and accommodating in my opposition hoping that the authors would evolve the policy towards something more acceptable. Authors chose, instead, to go in the opposite direction and then nearly succeeded in subverting the PDP to get consensus declared despite the outstanding and unaddressed objections. After that, I became more vocal in my opposition.

Your non-specific “We” is also rather questionable. Are you now claiming to speak for the entire AfriNIC community? Who, exactly, is this “We” that you claim to represent here? Is it merely the “royal we” where you actually effectively mean “I” but you think your argument sounds better if you pretend there are more people behind it?

I’m all for having members collaborate as well.

If you think I or any organization with which I am affiliated is violating policies, tell me… Provide specific information and let me know where you think the violations are and I assure you I will look into the matter and do what I can to get the situation rectified.

I do not work with organizations I believe are flaunting RIR policies.

You talk about protecting the PDP, but what, exactly, is this perceived threat from which you wish to protect it?

I also wish to make very clear here that my participation in the AfriNIC community has nothing at all to do with my being a member of the ARIN AC. Nothing I say is representative of the AC or ARIN. My views are mine and mine alone. Nobody else wants responsibility for anything I might say.


> The rest of elaborate arguments and discussions do not help this community to advance. 


I guess we can agree to disagree about that as well. I’m sorry you don’t like the outcome of our discussion, but it seems to me that other than a few individuals determined to continue throwing rocks, the clarifications and answers we have provided and the steps we have undertaken to make our fellowship program more transparent are getting through and that the community is becoming more accepting of our efforts to help broaden the community and improve participation.


> This will be my last comment on this abuse of pdp for now.


Again, what abuse? You have yet to show where we have done anything abusive or in violation of the PDP as written.


Owen


> 

> Noah

> 

> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 12:43 AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:

> 

> 

>> On Feb 19, 2020, at 06:20 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 10:07 AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>>> On Feb 17, 2020, at 21:47 , Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>>> On 14 Feb 2020, at 21:13, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:

>>>> 

>>>> I can’t speak for the foundation, but my best guess is they chose not to engage to avoid dignifying the accusations.

>>> 

>>> --

>>>> On 17 Feb 2020, at 21:03, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:

>>>> 

>>>> It is not the goal or intent of Larus foundation to undermine anything. We are, exactly as Daniel said, providing opportunities for more Africans to participate in the AfriNIC process.

>>>> 

>>> 

>>> Owen,

>>> 

>>> I might have missed a mail somewhere.  Do you also work for Larus foundation?

>>> 

>>> The Larus terms and conditions for its fellowship are clearly suspect and indefensible especially after recent experiences.  If you work for them and are towing the company line, I’d understand that you are singing to the tune of your paymaster.  If not, it seems that you may have become part of the problem in worse ways than one can imagine.

>> 

>> I do a small amount of consulting for Larus Foundation.

>> 

>> Ok now that this is clear, I now understand why you have been defending this conjob.

> 

> Noah,

> 

> Is it impossible for you to carry on a discussion without ad hominem attacks and libelous speech?

> 

>> The consulting I do there is primarily aimed at keeping the fellowship program open, transparent, and community oriented. Amusingly, my efforts are aimed at ensuring that it does not become what it is accused of being.

>> 

>> It is already what it is being accused of being but you are already conflicted and biased to see it.  We have the so called "African Youths" being paid USD500 in return for services rendered. The service that according to previously published documents on list and other sources clearly goes to undermine the policy development process and essentially AfriNIC..... 

> 

> Please show where and in which documents it “undermines the policy development process and essentially AfriNIC”.

> 

> You continue to make these baseless allegations without offering any proof or evidence. As if you think that continuing to repeat the same lies over and over somehow makes them more true.

> 

> While I do understand the psychological effect that lies repeated often enough tend to embed in peoples brains as fact, that becomes far less effective when repeated calls for evidence to back up the allegations go unanswered as is the case here.

> 

>> If you are not seeing what is happening then its unfortunate…..

> 

> Time will tell. In the meantime, can we focus on evidence, fact, and a collegial debate of the actual issues without resorting to ad hominem and character assassination?

> 

> Thanks,

> 

> Owen

> 

> 


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