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[rpd] New Policy Proposal Received - "IPv4 Inter-RIR Legacy Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)

Fernando Frediani fhfrediani at
Mon Aug 19 20:42:18 UTC 2019

Hello Owen
Thanks for your comments.

On 19/08/2019 16:03, Owen DeLong wrote:


> <clip>


> Sanctioned how? By what power?


> RIRs have no legal authority.

Oh they do, by different ways.
When any organization becomes a RIR member and receives a block, it is
obliged to use it according to the current rules, policies and behave
according to the bylaws and the contract they signed and agreed which by
the way are completely valid in courts and which give this rights to
RIRs to take resources back if any term is violated. There are cases
where violations on the policy or how the organization handle the IP
space can get these resources revoked from the organization. This works
like that on any RIR, not just in AfriNIC.


> Any group of networks that want to create their own registry system

> and exchange packets on that basis are welcome to do so.

Yes they do, but are you probably know it is not a trivial thing ,
specially being recognized but ICANN/IANA and there are strict
principles to reach before that
Even if that would ever happen any blocks recovered under the basis
mentioned above would never be given to this new registry, so the
practical effect of it seems something far from happening.


> Transfers occurring “under the table” are not really under the table.

> They are better explained as “transfers occurring outside the purview

> of those cooperating with the RIR system”.

And that violates the rules agreed by those who form the RIR and support
its existence. Either we have rules and policies that everybody agrees
to follow to be respected or we don't need any RIR systems.


> There’s no law that requires anyone to cooperate with the RIR system.

> It’s merely convenient and useful for ensuring uniqueness.

There are laws that gives full support to contracts signed by between
organizations and guidelines that must be followed. We are not talking
about something specific or theoretic, but rather something recognized
and followed internationally. I don't think any judge would give reason
to an organization willing to act unilaterally in this scenario we are


> The only power the RIRs have is the number of ISPs who choose to

> cooperate with the RIR system. This creates an important balancing

> act. If the RIRs act in a manner that is too harmful to the ability of

> ISPs (and other address users) to achieve their goals, then the RIR

> system will be replaced with something else, or worse, the internet

> number management will be come fragmented amongst competing registry

> systems and uniqueness will become difficult (at best) to maintain.

> OTOH, if the IP using community does not cooperate in creating useful

> policies by which the RIR system operates and then following those

> policies, it creates a similar set of problems, on the opposite side

> of the equation.

Useful policies to who ? To just a few cases, to private for-profit
companies willing to take profit of these few cases or to majority of
the members ?
There have been different  views in this discussion, while some believe
it is good for the region which is fine, other see there are risks and
possible harm to the resources destined to the region and to majority of
organizations. Therefore it doesn't seem to be a consensus at the moment
and this is not something good at the current system.

> <clip>

> The question isn’t whether the region will stop growing or not… It

> will not. The question is whether or not the addresses being used in

> the region will continue to be accurately managed by the local

> regional registry or whether that registry will become irrelevant and

> be bypassed in order to facilitate that process.

Do we have in the history any case a scenario like this was raised ?
Even with real examples of other RIRs that didn't have a Inter-RIR
transfer policy ready when they went to Phase 2 like ? I don't think so.
Everything went on and they got a transfer policy at the correct time
for their reality. It just doesn't seem the correct time for Africa
really. The scenario of chaos if such policy doesn't reach consensus is

> <clip>


>> Therefore I propose you abandon this proposal for now and re-present

>> it in the future when the scenario changes and a policy like this is

>> really needed and will bring benefits to the region.


> Multiple people have already stated that this policy is already

> needed. Despite your continued assertions to the contrary, doesn’t

> change the facts on the ground. At this point, I think this policy is

> overdue.

The same way multiple people stated opposition to this policy for same
and different reasons I raised. Before commenting on this thread I have
read every single message discussed previously and they are there for
who wishes to take their own conclusions.

Again I am not against having a Inter-RIR transfer policy at some point
in the near future, but at the present in brings more harm than benefits
to Africa.


> Owen


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