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[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
94cm4n .
ezekielj20 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 3 20:21:29 UTC 2019
Sorry I meant to post to the community-discuss.
Jehovahseun
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 9:18 PM 94cm4n ., <ezekielj20 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Caleb,
> I think Taiwo decided not to respond to you cos just like your questions
> to all the PDP chair candidates in Kampala (in which none of them responded
> too),it does not worth a reply. However i think I can dignify you with a
> response so that you don't think too much as to why people don't respond to
> you and start thinking too much of the fact that it seams you live in
> another planet.
> First of all, you don't work for Afrinic and not the spokespersons for
> AFRINIC.
> Secondly, Taiwo didn't talk about the fellows and you went off point.
> Third, you did not include that fact that some of the mentors appointed
> by AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the fellows to push their
> polices and agenda. Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows
> via the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the
> PDP chair.
> @ Heleen and other fellows? is this not True.
> AFRINIC fellows were used by some to achieve thier aim. There is a
> serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in
> appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided
> access to the candidates for the PDP chair under guise of being an ex
> fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about
> WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day.
>
> Regards
> Jehovahseun
>
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 8:56 PM , <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to
>> rpd at afrinic.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> rpd-request at afrinic.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> rpd-owner at afrinic.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> (Taiwo Oyewande)
>> 2. Re: RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 (afia faith)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:21:54 +0100
>> From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>
>> To: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke
>> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> Message-ID: <F620E652-527E-483E-A40F-38411D42BE62 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> @hellen.
>>
>> Thank you for you insight. Please can you attach a copy of the summary
>> given to you to help new intakes get up to speed. - this is what I
>> encourage and hope AFRINIC can give to new comers and hopefully distribute
>> in the new comers session- .
>>
>> @ caleb
>> ..........
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote:
>> >
>> > Taiwo,
>> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting
>> in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that
>> we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also
>> had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite
>> discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and
>> contributing to policy discussions.
>> > Regards,
>> > Hellen
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the
>> >> policies to be discussed.
>> >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students
>> >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new
>> >> members who are fresh in the policy development process.
>> >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the
>> >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every
>> >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.
>> >> Cheers.
>> >> Taiwo O
>> >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston
>> >>> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Wafa,
>> >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out
>> >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also
>> >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the
>> >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things
>> >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in
>> >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the
>> >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and
>> >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.
>> >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am
>> >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also
>> >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?
>> >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I
>> >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but
>> >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of
>> >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not
>> >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care
>> >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we
>> >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.
>> >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening
>> >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF
>> >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL
>> >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___
>> >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money
>> >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say
>> >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to
>> >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the
>> >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent
>> >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be
>> >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it
>> >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we
>> >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization
>> >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation
>> >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the
>> >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.
>> >>>> That is called hypocrisy.
>> >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with
>> >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and
>> >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I
>> >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the
>> >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,
>> >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t
>> >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was
>> >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see
>> >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we
>> >>>> don?t like the individual doing it?
>> >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear
>> >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I
>> >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front
>> >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I
>> >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is
>> >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his
>> >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on
>> >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same
>> >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I
>> >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if
>> >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position
>> >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great
>> >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it
>> >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.
>> >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their
>> >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby
>> >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people
>> >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for
>> >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic
>> >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their
>> >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.
>> >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?
>> >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here
>> >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on
>> >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and
>> >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to
>> >>>> do with the content or the policy.
>> >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite
>> >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu
>> >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the
>> >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that
>> >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for
>> >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I
>> >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve
>> >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
>> >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at
>> >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal
>> >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>> >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact
>> >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left
>> >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.
>> >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_
>> >>>> Thanks
>> >>>> Andrew
>> >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>
>> >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
>> >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net
>> >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> >>>> Hi
>> >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
>> >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in
>> >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC
>> >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>> >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>> >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
>> >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG
>> >>>> participants interventions on the proposals.
>> >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these
>> >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at
>> >>>> the PPM and after....
>> >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual
>> >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to
>> >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions
>> >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of
>> >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.
>> >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also
>> >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>> >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough
>> >>>> consensus process.
>> >>>> Section 6
>> >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough
>> >>>> consensus.
>> >>>> Section 7
>> >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be
>> >>>> rough consensus
>> >>>> My African fellows,
>> >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process
>> >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was
>> >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand
>> >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made
>> >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..
>> >>>> The real education package is as below:
>> >>>> =====
>> >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC
>> >>
>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997
>> >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
>> >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf
>> >>>> AFRINIC constitution
>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws
>> >>>> Registration Service Agreement
>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa
>> >>>> AFRINIC policy manual
>> >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual
>> >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre
>> >>>> AFRINIC PDP
>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy
>> >>>> Rough Consensus
>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282
>> >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals
>> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals
>> >>>> RiRs PDPs
>> >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/
>> >>>> RIR comparative policy overview
>> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/
>> >>>> ==============
>> >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.
>> >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans.
>> >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,
>> >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of
>> >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I
>> >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.
>> >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of
>> >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid
>> >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must
>> >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of
>> >>>> conduct.
>> >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet
>> >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy
>> >>>> development process and operations.
>> >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>> --
>> >>> VIVIEN
>> >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED
>> >>> p:+852 29888918
>> >>> f:+852 29888368
>> >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net
>> >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1]
>> >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> Links:
>> >> ------
>> >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > b
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:47 +0100
>> From: afia faith <faithafia at gmail.com>
>> To: rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAAp+Vo2xe8id4pPVVctYFRcBtaodTeFowckYw32xo5OktDpeLA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Taiwo,
>> Yes all the fellows are members of the RPD mailists so they knew what
>> happened during PDP day. Yes we do 'discuss' policies within Afrinic
>> Fellowship program but no we do not tell fellows what to say, they are in
>> charge of their own opinion. Sorry,my name is Afi and i was the returning
>> fellow for AFRINIC30.
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Best,
>> Afi Edoh
>> Systems & Network Engineer/UN IGF MAG Member
>> AFRINIC-27 l AfriSIG 2018 l AU-CIEFFA AMBASSADOR
>> Mobile: (+228)91760238/ (+233) 540837065-WhatSapp
>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/afiedoh/> l Skype:afia.faith l
>> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/afia.edo> l Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/afiafaith> l Website
>> <http://www.afrotribune.com>
>>
>> *we live once so live right*
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 8:19 PM <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Send RPD mailing list submissions to
>> > rpd at afrinic.net
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > rpd-request at afrinic.net
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > rpd-owner at afrinic.net
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> > (hkariuki at isoc.or.ke)
>> > 2. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> > (Taiwo Oyewande)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:35:00 +0300
>> > From: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke
>> > To: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net
>> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> > Message-ID: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd at isoc.or.ke>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> >
>> > Taiwo,
>> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in
>> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that
>> > we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We
>> > also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and
>> > onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue
>> > learning and contributing to policy discussions.
>> > Regards,
>> > Hellen
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the
>> > > policies to be discussed.
>> > >
>> > > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students
>> > > included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new
>> > > members who are fresh in the policy development process.
>> > >
>> > > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the
>> > > foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every
>> > > meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers.
>> > >
>> > > Taiwo O
>> > >
>> > >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston
>> > >> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Wafa,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out
>> > >>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also
>> > >>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the
>> > >>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things
>> > >>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in
>> > >>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the
>> > >>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and
>> > >>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am
>> > >>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also
>> > >>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?
>> > >>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I
>> > >>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but
>> > >>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of
>> > >>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not
>> > >>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care
>> > >>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we
>> > >>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening
>> > >>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF
>> > >>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL
>> > >>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money
>> > >>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say
>> > >>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to
>> > >>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the
>> > >>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent
>> > >>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be
>> > >>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it
>> > >>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we
>> > >>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization
>> > >>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation
>> > >>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the
>> > >>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.
>> > >>> That is called hypocrisy.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with
>> > >>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and
>> > >>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I
>> > >>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the
>> > >>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,
>> > >>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t
>> > >>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was
>> > >>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see
>> > >>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we
>> > >>> don?t like the individual doing it?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear
>> > >>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I
>> > >>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front
>> > >>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I
>> > >>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is
>> > >>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his
>> > >>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on
>> > >>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same
>> > >>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I
>> > >>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if
>> > >>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position
>> > >>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great
>> > >>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it
>> > >>> through the silencing of the rights of others.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their
>> > >>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby
>> > >>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people
>> > >>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for
>> > >>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic
>> > >>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their
>> > >>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.
>> > >>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?
>> > >>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here
>> > >>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on
>> > >>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and
>> > >>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to
>> > >>> do with the content or the policy.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite
>> > >>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu
>> > >>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the
>> > >>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that
>> > >>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for
>> > >>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I
>> > >>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve
>> > >>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
>> > >>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at
>> > >>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal
>> > >>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact
>> > >>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left
>> > >>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?
>> > >>> and
>> > >>>
>> > >>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Andrew
>> > >>>
>> > >>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>
>> > >>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
>> > >>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> > >>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net
>> > >>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hi
>> > >>>
>> > >>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
>> > >>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in
>> > >>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC
>> > >>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
>> > >>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG
>> > >>> participants interventions on the proposals.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these
>> > >>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at
>> > >>> the PPM and after....
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual
>> > >>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to
>> > >>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions
>> > >>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of
>> > >>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.
>> > >>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also
>> > >>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough
>> > >>> consensus process.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Section 6
>> > >>>
>> > >>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough
>> > >>> consensus.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Section 7
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be
>> > >>> rough consensus
>> > >>>
>> > >>> My African fellows,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process
>> > >>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was
>> > >>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand
>> > >>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made
>> > >>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The real education package is as below:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> =====
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf
>> > >>>
>> > >>> AFRINIC constitution
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Registration Service Agreement
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa
>> > >>>
>> > >>> AFRINIC policy manual
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual
>> > >>>
>> > >>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre
>> > >>>
>> > >>> AFRINIC PDP
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Rough Consensus
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282
>> > >>>
>> > >>> AFRINIC current policy proposals
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals
>> > >>>
>> > >>> RiRs PDPs
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/
>> > >>>
>> > >>> RIR comparative policy overview
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ==============
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Come build African Internet by Africans.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,
>> > >>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of
>> > >>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I
>> > >>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of
>> > >>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid
>> > >>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must
>> > >>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of
>> > >>> conduct.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet
>> > >>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy
>> > >>> development process and operations.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> -Wafa _______________________________________________
>> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >> VIVIEN
>> > >> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED
>> > >> p:+852 29888918
>> > >> f:+852 29888368
>> > >> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net
>> > >> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1]
>> > >> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR
>> > >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Links:
>> > > ------
>> > > [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > b
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:17:38 +0100
>> > From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>
>> > To: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke
>> > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net
>> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> > Message-ID: <906C337A-852D-4857-B7F5-1CD39205112F at gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> >
>> > @
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Taiwo,
>> > > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting
>> in
>> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm
>> that we
>> > were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also
>> > had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite
>> > discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and
>> > contributing to policy discussions.
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Hellen
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote:
>> > >> Hi all,
>> > >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the
>> > >> policies to be discussed.
>> > >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students
>> > >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new
>> > >> members who are fresh in the policy development process.
>> > >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the
>> > >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before
>> every
>> > >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly.
>> > >> Cheers.
>> > >> Taiwo O
>> > >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston
>> > >>> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>> > >>>> Wafa,
>> > >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out
>> > >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also
>> > >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the
>> > >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things
>> > >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in
>> > >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the
>> > >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and
>> > >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it.
>> > >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am
>> > >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also
>> > >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ?
>> > >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I
>> > >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but
>> > >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of
>> > >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not
>> > >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care
>> > >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we
>> > >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing.
>> > >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening
>> > >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF
>> > >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL
>> > >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___
>> > >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money
>> > >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say
>> > >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to
>> > >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the
>> > >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent
>> > >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be
>> > >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it
>> > >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we
>> > >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization
>> > >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation
>> > >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the
>> > >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong.
>> > >>>> That is called hypocrisy.
>> > >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with
>> > >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and
>> > >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I
>> > >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the
>> > >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper,
>> > >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t
>> > >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was
>> > >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see
>> > >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we
>> > >>>> don?t like the individual doing it?
>> > >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear
>> > >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I
>> > >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front
>> > >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I
>> > >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is
>> > >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his
>> > >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on
>> > >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same
>> > >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I
>> > >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if
>> > >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position
>> > >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great
>> > >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it
>> > >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others.
>> > >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their
>> > >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby
>> > >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people
>> > >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for
>> > >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic
>> > >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their
>> > >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process.
>> > >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ?
>> > >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here
>> > >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on
>> > >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and
>> > >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to
>> > >>>> do with the content or the policy.
>> > >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite
>> > >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu
>> > >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the
>> > >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that
>> > >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for
>> > >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I
>> > >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve
>> > >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own
>> > >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at
>> > >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal
>> > >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else.
>> > >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact
>> > >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left
>> > >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see.
>> > >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ?
>> > >>>> and
>> > >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_
>> > >>>> Thanks
>> > >>>> Andrew
>> > >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>
>> > >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30
>> > >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> > >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net
>> > >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship
>> > >>>> Hi
>> > >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus
>> > >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in
>> > >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC
>> > >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link:
>> > >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg
>> > >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation
>> > >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG
>> > >>>> participants interventions on the proposals.
>> > >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these
>> > >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at
>> > >>>> the PPM and after....
>> > >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual
>> > >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to
>> > >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions
>> > >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of
>> > >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged.
>> > >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also
>> > >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence.
>> > >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough
>> > >>>> consensus process.
>> > >>>> Section 6
>> > >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough
>> > >>>> consensus.
>> > >>>> Section 7
>> > >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be
>> > >>>> rough consensus
>> > >>>> My African fellows,
>> > >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process
>> > >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was
>> > >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand
>> > >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made
>> > >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity..
>> > >>>> The real education package is as below:
>> > >>>> =====
>> > >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997
>> > >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation)
>> > >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf
>> > >>>> AFRINIC constitution
>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws
>> > >>>> Registration Service Agreement
>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa
>> > >>>> AFRINIC policy manual
>> > >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual
>> > >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM
>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre
>> > >>>> AFRINIC PDP
>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy
>> > >>>> Rough Consensus
>> > >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282
>> > >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals
>> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals
>> > >>>> RiRs PDPs
>> > >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/
>> > >>>> RIR comparative policy overview
>> > >>>
>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/
>> > >>>> ==============
>> > >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way.
>> > >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans.
>> > >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation,
>> > >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of
>> > >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I
>> > >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives.
>> > >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of
>> > >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid
>> > >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must
>> > >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of
>> > >>>> conduct.
>> > >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet
>> > >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy
>> > >>>> development process and operations.
>> > >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________
>> > >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> > >>> --
>> > >>> VIVIEN
>> > >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED
>> > >>> p:+852 29888918
>> > >>> f:+852 29888368
>> > >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net
>> > >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1]
>> > >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR
>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> > >> Links:
>> > >> ------
>> > >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > b
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Subject: Digest Footer
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > RPD mailing list
>> > RPD at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40
>> > ************************************
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>> RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net
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