[rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (peace nnenna)

[Emem William]

Dear Daniel,
I do not think this proposal is aimed at deplating our resources. It
utilization of the needed resources.
Thanks
William Emem



On Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 07:53 <rpd-request at afrinic.net wrote:

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>    1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (peace nnenna)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:52:24 +0300
> From: peace nnenna <peacennennagorgues at gmail.com>
> To: RPD at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAGKwtiW-H2LD3O1M6wf75yDiHRDeE6b_11dcLO7sKF0fSD4gtQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello Daniel,
>
> The fact that African region is at the exhaustion stage makes us ready to
> consider this transfer of resources from other regions.
> How do we support the growth of internet in African  if we don't allow
> transfer of resources Again I don't think there is much different between
> the two  in mean internet in Africa and digital transformation in growth
> of Africa, the two works together.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Peace Nnenna.
>
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 21:46 DANIEL NANGHAKA <dndannang at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Jordi,
> > In case the other regions allow bidirectional transfer, Africa region is
> > not yet ready for the transfers.
> >
> > I suggest you should be supporting the growth of the internet in Africa
> > and not aim for transfer of resources that are required for the digital
> > transformation and growth of Africa.
> >
> > In case ARIN is giving more resource, what is the review behind this
> > resources. I don't think ARIN would gladly transfer resources to region
> > which has not depleted its resources. Let Africa show that's its
> resources
> > are depleted then push for the transfer but we resources which are
> required
> > by other regions. Let's  use this resources in the region.
> >
> > Daniel K. Nanghaka
> > On Jun 18, 2019 9:12 PM, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
> >
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> >>    1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC needs
> >>       this policy now! (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:10:45 +0300
> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >> To: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
> >>         needs this policy now!
> >> Message-ID: <83B33FFF-B1CB-4D1E-9CBF-1E9670BF10CA at consulintel.es>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi Paschal,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> All the existing policies (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and RIPE) allow
> >> bi-direccional transfers without looking at any balance or any
> restrictions.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is no restriction in any of those policies to say something like
> >> ?we only allow n% of outgoing transfers vs incoming ones?.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As said a number of times, the region that is ?giving? more addressess
> is
> >> ARIN. Please see my presentation tomorrow on this (still working on it
> >> right now).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jordi
> >>
> >> @jordipalet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> El 18/6/19 20:59, "Paschal Ochang" <pascosoft at gmail.com> escribi?:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Based on your analogy Howard it therefore means that this policy will
> >> benefit the region. The major fear is not just the balance of resources
> >> flow but  more resources going out and less coming in and this proposal
> >> clearly shows that this region will benefit from the policy because more
> >> resources will flow in the region. Is there any region that will allow
> only
> >> outflow of resources without inflow?  I don't think so.
> >> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, Lee Howard <lee.howard at retevia.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is interesting.
> >>
> >> My logic goes like this:
> >>
> >> 1. Afrinic has a finite number of IPv4 addresses to allocate/assign.
> >>
> >> 2. Afrinic will run out of those addresses next year.
> >>
> >> 3. Once Afrinic runs out, any network needing more IPv4 addresses not be
> >> able to get them from Afrinic.
> >>
> >> 4. Networks needing more addresses will have choices:
> >>
> >>   4a. Stop growing.
> >>
> >>   4b. Use (carrier-grade) NAT. Even NAT requires some IPv4 addresses.
> >>
> >>   4c. Try to find addresses inside Africa that are for sale.
> >>
> >> Evaluating those options:
> >>
> >> 4a is bad for the region.
> >>
> >> 4b is complicated. It means buying more hardware, updating some systems.
> >> Some things don't work well with NAT. If you can deploy IPv6 and use
> NAT64,
> >> 464xlat, MAP-T or MAP-E, you reduce that cost, but it's still more than
> you
> >> spend now.
> >>
> >> 4c could get very expensive. Demand for IPv4 addresses has been around
> >> 25,000 /24s per year (with some much higher peaks) since Afrinic was
> >> founded.[1] The Afrinic region has about seven /8s in total.[2] If
> demand
> >> continues, then more than 6M of those 112M addresses would have to be
> >> traded every year, somewhere between 1/2% - 1%.
> >>
> >> The question then is whether you think there are more underutilized IPv4
> >> addresses in the U.S. or in Africa. Assuming a perfect market:
> >>
> >> If Africa is more efficient, and Afrinic's transfer policy is only
> within
> >> the region, then the few unused IPv4 addresses will sell for a higher
> price
> >> than addresses elsewhere.[3]
> >>
> >> If Africa is less efficient and Afrinic's transfer policy is only within
> >> the region, then unused addresses will be cheaper than elsewhere.
> >>
> >> If Africa is more efficient and Afrinic has an inter-regional transfer
> >> policy, addresses will be valued more highly in Africa and addresses
> will
> >> come in.
> >>
> >> If Africa is less efficient that the rest of the world and Afrinic has
> an
> >> inter-regional transfer policy, buyers in other countries will buy
> >> addresses from Africa.
> >>
> >> My guess is that addresses in Africa are pretty efficiently utilized,
> and
> >> therefore people in Africa will have a higher need for addresses than
> >> people elsewhere, and therefore a) prices will rise, and b) addresses
> will
> >> tend to flow in to Africa rather than out.
> >>
> >> Lee
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [1] https://afrinic.net/stats/ipv4
> >>
> >> [2] https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf
> >>
> >> [3] https://www.retevia.net/address-pricing-2019-and-beyond/ easily $30
> >> per address next year, maybe much higher
> >>
> >> On 6/18/19 8:18 AM, Pascal ANDRIANISA wrote:
> >> Thank you Jordi
> >> if in the opposite case the remaining resources at AFRINIC will be
> >> transferred to other RIRs. It is true that I am not against but I do not
> >> agree that the current resources insufficient according to the
> information
> >> I received since AFRINIC-29 will be transferred to other RIR.
> >> If you can guarantee this balance of resources transfer I think it will
> >> be logical for AFRINIC. Unlike so if AFRINIC has a lot of resources it
> will
> >> be good for the community.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA
> >> Webmaster i RENALA
> >> R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A
> ctivities
> >> - [ http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ | http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ ]
> >> Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la Recherche
> >> Scientifique - Fiadanana
> >> GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29
> >>
> >> ----- Mail original -----
> >> De: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >> ?: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >> Envoy?: Mardi 18 Juin 2019 14:55:02
> >> Objet: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
> >> needs this policy now!
> >>
> >> Hi Pascal,
> >>
> >> Precisely what you said is the argument in favor of this policy
> proposal,
> >> not against.
> >>
> >> AFRINIC don't have enough resources. The only way to receive resources
> is
> >> a policy that allows that other regions that are "giving up" resources,
> can
> >> get them.
> >>
> >> This is the case for LACNIC (the same policy proposal reached consensus
> >> in the last meeting and yesterday the consensus decision was handed out
> to
> >> the board for the final ratification), and for AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> AFRINIC must have an equivalent policy proposal to the ones that exist
> in
> >> the other regions, otherwise, you will not get sufficient resources for
> the
> >> continued implementation of IPv4 in the region and this will also be a
> >> barrier for the IPv6 deployment.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jordi
> >> @jordipalet
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >> ?El 18/6/19 10:48, "Pascal ANDRIANISA" <pascal at irenala.edu.mg>
> escribi?:
> >>
> >> ??? Hi Jordi,
> >> ????I read the policy proposal for IPV4 Inter-RIR Transfert.??
> >> ????The article =>
> >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal
> >> ??? <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal??
> ?>??
> >> I think this is not the benefit of AFRINIC as resources are currently
> >> insufficient for AFRINIC.
> >> ??? Otherwise it is necessary to balance the transfers between RIR
> >> because at least the number of resources is limited to sending to other
> >> RIRs.
> >> ???
> >> ????I do not support this policy for this reason, The AFRINIC's
> resources
> >> are not enough for AFRICA, why transfer them elsewhere ....
> >> ????
> >> ????Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA
> >> ????Webmaster i RENALA
> >> ????R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A
> >> ctivities - [ http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ | http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ ]
> >> ????Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la Recherche
> >> Scientifique - Fiadanana
> >> ????GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29
> >> ???
> >> ????----- Mail original -----
> >> ??? De: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >> ??? ?: "rpd" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >> ??? Envoy?: Samedi 15 Juin 2019 13:23:23
> >> ??? Objet: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC
> >> needs this policy now!
> >> ???
> >> ????Hi all,
> >> ???
> >> ????I wonder if anyone has inputs on the policy proposals for IPv4
> >> Inter-RIR transfers.
> >> ???
> >> ????https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-001-d1
> >> ???
> >> ????and
> >> ???
> >> ????https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1
> >> ???
> >> ????I will be presenting both of them together on Wednesday 19th. If
> >> you're not in Kampala, make sure to participate remotely (
> >> https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/participate-remotely), so we can
> >> resolve any doubts on the spot.
> >> ???
> >> ????This is a key issue for AFRINIC, which now is the *only* RIR not
> >> allowing those transfers.
> >> ???
> >> ????AFRINIC is soon (probably around end of this year) entering in
> >> exhaustion phase 2, so it will become more and more difficult to obtain
> >> IPv4. If transfers from other regions aren't allowed, this will be an
> added
> >> difficulty for the Internet growth in the region, and increase the
> >> difficulties for the continued IPv6 deployment.
> >> ???
> >> ????The region needs this policy *now*, because the implementation
> >> requires several months as there is a need to coordinate with the
> systems
> >> of the other RIRs, in order to ensure a transparent transfers process.
> >> ???
> >> ????So, what is your opinion?
> >> ????
> >> ????Regards,
> >> ??? Jordi
> >> ??? @jordipalet
> >> ????
> >> ?????
> >> ????
> >> ????
> >> ????
> >> ????**********************************************
> >> ??? IPv4 is over
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> >> ??? The IPv6 Company
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