<div dir="auto"><div>Dear Daniel,</div><div dir="auto">I do not think this proposal is aimed at deplating our resources. It utilization of the needed resources.</div><div dir="auto">Thanks </div><div dir="auto">William Emem<br><div dir="auto"><br></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 07:53 <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (peace nnenna)<br>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:52:24 +0300<br>
From: peace nnenna <<a href="mailto:peacennennagorgues@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">peacennennagorgues@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAGKwtiW-H2LD3O1M6wf75yDiHRDeE6b_11dcLO7sKF0fSD4gtQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAGKwtiW-H2LD3O1M6wf75yDiHRDeE6b_11dcLO7sKF0fSD4gtQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Hello Daniel,<br>
<br>
The fact that African region is at the exhaustion stage makes us ready to<br>
consider this transfer of resources from other regions.<br>
How do we support the growth of internet in African if we don't allow<br>
transfer of resources Again I don't think there is much different between<br>
the two in mean internet in Africa and digital transformation in growth<br>
of Africa, the two works together.<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Peace Nnenna.<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 21:46 DANIEL NANGHAKA <<a href="mailto:dndannang@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dndannang@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hello Jordi,<br>
> In case the other regions allow bidirectional transfer, Africa region is<br>
> not yet ready for the transfers.<br>
><br>
> I suggest you should be supporting the growth of the internet in Africa<br>
> and not aim for transfer of resources that are required for the digital<br>
> transformation and growth of Africa.<br>
><br>
> In case ARIN is giving more resource, what is the review behind this<br>
> resources. I don't think ARIN would gladly transfer resources to region<br>
> which has not depleted its resources. Let Africa show that's its resources<br>
> are depleted then push for the transfer but we resources which are required<br>
> by other regions. Let's use this resources in the region.<br>
><br>
> Daniel K. Nanghaka<br>
> On Jun 18, 2019 9:12 PM, <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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>><br>
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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>> Today's Topics:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. Re: inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC needs<br>
>> this policy now! (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 1<br>
>> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:10:45 +0300<br>
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> To: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC<br>
>> needs this policy now!<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:83B33FFF-B1CB-4D1E-9CBF-1E9670BF10CA@consulintel.es" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">83B33FFF-B1CB-4D1E-9CBF-1E9670BF10CA@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Paschal,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> All the existing policies (APNIC, ARIN, LACNIC and RIPE) allow<br>
>> bi-direccional transfers without looking at any balance or any restrictions.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> There is no restriction in any of those policies to say something like<br>
>> ?we only allow n% of outgoing transfers vs incoming ones?.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> As said a number of times, the region that is ?giving? more addressess is<br>
>> ARIN. Please see my presentation tomorrow on this (still working on it<br>
>> right now).<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Jordi<br>
>><br>
>> @jordipalet<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> El 18/6/19 20:59, "Paschal Ochang" <<a href="mailto:pascosoft@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pascosoft@gmail.com</a>> escribi?:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Based on your analogy Howard it therefore means that this policy will<br>
>> benefit the region. The major fear is not just the balance of resources<br>
>> flow but more resources going out and less coming in and this proposal<br>
>> clearly shows that this region will benefit from the policy because more<br>
>> resources will flow in the region. Is there any region that will allow only<br>
>> outflow of resources without inflow? I don't think so.<br>
>> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, Lee Howard <<a href="mailto:lee.howard@retevia.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">lee.howard@retevia.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> This is interesting.<br>
>><br>
>> My logic goes like this:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. Afrinic has a finite number of IPv4 addresses to allocate/assign.<br>
>><br>
>> 2. Afrinic will run out of those addresses next year.<br>
>><br>
>> 3. Once Afrinic runs out, any network needing more IPv4 addresses not be<br>
>> able to get them from Afrinic.<br>
>><br>
>> 4. Networks needing more addresses will have choices:<br>
>><br>
>> 4a. Stop growing.<br>
>><br>
>> 4b. Use (carrier-grade) NAT. Even NAT requires some IPv4 addresses.<br>
>><br>
>> 4c. Try to find addresses inside Africa that are for sale.<br>
>><br>
>> Evaluating those options:<br>
>><br>
>> 4a is bad for the region.<br>
>><br>
>> 4b is complicated. It means buying more hardware, updating some systems.<br>
>> Some things don't work well with NAT. If you can deploy IPv6 and use NAT64,<br>
>> 464xlat, MAP-T or MAP-E, you reduce that cost, but it's still more than you<br>
>> spend now.<br>
>><br>
>> 4c could get very expensive. Demand for IPv4 addresses has been around<br>
>> 25,000 /24s per year (with some much higher peaks) since Afrinic was<br>
>> founded.[1] The Afrinic region has about seven /8s in total.[2] If demand<br>
>> continues, then more than 6M of those 112M addresses would have to be<br>
>> traded every year, somewhere between 1/2% - 1%.<br>
>><br>
>> The question then is whether you think there are more underutilized IPv4<br>
>> addresses in the U.S. or in Africa. Assuming a perfect market:<br>
>><br>
>> If Africa is more efficient, and Afrinic's transfer policy is only within<br>
>> the region, then the few unused IPv4 addresses will sell for a higher price<br>
>> than addresses elsewhere.[3]<br>
>><br>
>> If Africa is less efficient and Afrinic's transfer policy is only within<br>
>> the region, then unused addresses will be cheaper than elsewhere.<br>
>><br>
>> If Africa is more efficient and Afrinic has an inter-regional transfer<br>
>> policy, addresses will be valued more highly in Africa and addresses will<br>
>> come in.<br>
>><br>
>> If Africa is less efficient that the rest of the world and Afrinic has an<br>
>> inter-regional transfer policy, buyers in other countries will buy<br>
>> addresses from Africa.<br>
>><br>
>> My guess is that addresses in Africa are pretty efficiently utilized, and<br>
>> therefore people in Africa will have a higher need for addresses than<br>
>> people elsewhere, and therefore a) prices will rise, and b) addresses will<br>
>> tend to flow in to Africa rather than out.<br>
>><br>
>> Lee<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> [1] <a href="https://afrinic.net/stats/ipv4" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/stats/ipv4</a><br>
>><br>
>> [2] <a href="https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/NRO-Statistics-2019-Q1.pdf</a><br>
>><br>
>> [3] <a href="https://www.retevia.net/address-pricing-2019-and-beyond/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.retevia.net/address-pricing-2019-and-beyond/</a> easily $30<br>
>> per address next year, maybe much higher<br>
>><br>
>> On 6/18/19 8:18 AM, Pascal ANDRIANISA wrote:<br>
>> Thank you Jordi<br>
>> if in the opposite case the remaining resources at AFRINIC will be<br>
>> transferred to other RIRs. It is true that I am not against but I do not<br>
>> agree that the current resources insufficient according to the information<br>
>> I received since AFRINIC-29 will be transferred to other RIR.<br>
>> If you can guarantee this balance of resources transfer I think it will<br>
>> be logical for AFRINIC. Unlike so if AFRINIC has a lot of resources it will<br>
>> be good for the community.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA<br>
>> Webmaster i RENALA<br>
>> R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A ctivities<br>
>> - [ <a href="http://www.irenala.edu.mg/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.irenala.edu.mg/</a> | <a href="http://www.irenala.edu.mg/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.irenala.edu.mg/</a> ]<br>
>> Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la Recherche<br>
>> Scientifique - Fiadanana<br>
>> GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29<br>
>><br>
>> ----- Mail original -----<br>
>> De: "rpd" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> ?: "rpd" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> Envoy?: Mardi 18 Juin 2019 14:55:02<br>
>> Objet: Re: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC<br>
>> needs this policy now!<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Pascal,<br>
>><br>
>> Precisely what you said is the argument in favor of this policy proposal,<br>
>> not against.<br>
>><br>
>> AFRINIC don't have enough resources. The only way to receive resources is<br>
>> a policy that allows that other regions that are "giving up" resources, can<br>
>> get them.<br>
>><br>
>> This is the case for LACNIC (the same policy proposal reached consensus<br>
>> in the last meeting and yesterday the consensus decision was handed out to<br>
>> the board for the final ratification), and for AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> AFRINIC must have an equivalent policy proposal to the ones that exist in<br>
>> the other regions, otherwise, you will not get sufficient resources for the<br>
>> continued implementation of IPv4 in the region and this will also be a<br>
>> barrier for the IPv6 deployment.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Jordi<br>
>> @jordipalet<br>
>><br>
>> ?<br>
>><br>
>> ?El 18/6/19 10:48, "Pascal ANDRIANISA" <<a href="mailto:pascal@irenala.edu.mg" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pascal@irenala.edu.mg</a>> escribi?:<br>
>><br>
>> ??? Hi Jordi,<br>
>> ????I read the policy proposal for IPV4 Inter-RIR Transfert.??<br>
>> ????The article =><br>
>> <a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal</a><br>
>> ??? <<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal??" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1#proposal??</a>?>??<br>
>> I think this is not the benefit of AFRINIC as resources are currently<br>
>> insufficient for AFRINIC.<br>
>> ??? Otherwise it is necessary to balance the transfers between RIR<br>
>> because at least the number of resources is limited to sending to other<br>
>> RIRs.<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????I do not support this policy for this reason, The AFRINIC's resources<br>
>> are not enough for AFRICA, why transfer them elsewhere ....<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA<br>
>> ????Webmaster i RENALA<br>
>> ????R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A<br>
>> ctivities - [ <a href="http://www.irenala.edu.mg/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.irenala.edu.mg/</a> | <a href="http://www.irenala.edu.mg/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.irenala.edu.mg/</a> ]<br>
>> ????Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la Recherche<br>
>> Scientifique - Fiadanana<br>
>> ????GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????----- Mail original -----<br>
>> ??? De: "rpd" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> ??? ?: "rpd" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
>> ??? Envoy?: Samedi 15 Juin 2019 13:23:23<br>
>> ??? Objet: [rpd] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals - AFRINIC<br>
>> needs this policy now!<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????Hi all,<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????I wonder if anyone has inputs on the policy proposals for IPv4<br>
>> Inter-RIR transfers.<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-001-d1" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-001-d1</a><br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????and<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????<a href="https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-002-d1</a><br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????I will be presenting both of them together on Wednesday 19th. If<br>
>> you're not in Kampala, make sure to participate remotely (<br>
>> <a href="https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/participate-remotely" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.internetsummit.africa/en/participate-remotely</a>), so we can<br>
>> resolve any doubts on the spot.<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????This is a key issue for AFRINIC, which now is the *only* RIR not<br>
>> allowing those transfers.<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????AFRINIC is soon (probably around end of this year) entering in<br>
>> exhaustion phase 2, so it will become more and more difficult to obtain<br>
>> IPv4. If transfers from other regions aren't allowed, this will be an added<br>
>> difficulty for the Internet growth in the region, and increase the<br>
>> difficulties for the continued IPv6 deployment.<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????The region needs this policy *now*, because the implementation<br>
>> requires several months as there is a need to coordinate with the systems<br>
>> of the other RIRs, in order to ensure a transparent transfers process.<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????So, what is your opinion?<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????Regards,<br>
>> ??? Jordi<br>
>> ??? @jordipalet<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ?????<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????**********************************************<br>
>> ??? IPv4 is over<br>
>> ??? Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> ??? <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> ??? The IPv6 Company<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br>
>> or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of<br>
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the<br>
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br>
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br>
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this<br>
>> communication and delete it.<br>
>> ???<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????<br>
>> ????_______________________________________________<br>
>> ??? RPD mailing list<br>
>> ??? <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
>> ??? <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
>> ? <<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>?>??<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> **********************************************<br>
>> IPv4 is over<br>
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> The IPv6 Company<br>
>><br>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or<br>
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of<br>
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the<br>
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br>
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br>
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this<br>
>> communication and delete it.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> RPD mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
>> **********************************************<br>
>> IPv4 is over<br>
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>> The IPv6 Company<br>
>><br>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or<br>
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of<br>
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the<br>
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br>
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br>
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End of RPD Digest, Vol 153, Issue 118<br>
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