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[rpd] IPV4 inter-RIR Legacy Resources Transfer

Hussein Olanrewaju AKANDE elsufi at unilorin.edu.ng
Tue Jun 18 08:43:58 UTC 2019


I agree with you perfectly.

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 9:05 AM Kris Seeburn <seeburn.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> I’ll second and if not support that resources be used than kept in the
> coffer. If the coffer generated some interest I would see no issue but our
> existence is also trying to find a stability between all the RIRs and
> resources needs to be used for continuous existence and sustainability.
>
> On 18 Jun 2019, at 11:53, Hussein Olanrewaju AKANDE <
> elsufi at unilorin.edu.ng> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
> Thank you Mark Elkins for those wonderful points, I do not understand why
> we should continue to keep the resources when they can easily be utilized.
>
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 8:21 AM <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Nomcom feedback to PDWG (Owen DeLong)
>>    2. Re: IPV4 inter-RIR Legacy Resources Transfer. (Pascal ANDRIANISA)
>>    3. Re: IPV4 inter-RIR Legacy Resources Transfer. (Mark Elkins)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:19:55 +0300
>> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> To: Ernest Byaruhanga <ernest at afrinic.net>
>> Cc: 2019 NomCom <nomcom2019 at afrinic.net>, rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Nomcom feedback to PDWG
>> Message-ID: <F7C58339-1AD0-4729-95E3-3F1110B5C11B at delong.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>>
>> Ernest, as I understand the PDP and the bylaws, the only appropriate way
>> to implement the output of that committee would be for the committee to
>> write up one or more policy proposals to codify then into the PDP and have
>> the community come to consensus on them.
>>
>> Failing that, they are an ex party change to the PDP in violation of the
>> PDP and the bylaws. While I agree with most of the recommendations on that
>> page, we must above all preserve the integrity of the process and therefore
>> follow the rules when we seek to amend the process.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 17, 2019, at 17:08, Ernest Byaruhanga <ernest at afrinic.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Owen,
>> >
>> > An update to the PDWG co-chair election process was produced by an
>> elections process review committee instituted by the CEO and shared with
>> the community for comments and feedback, sometime in 2012:
>> >
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2012/002145.html
>> >
>> > Unfortunately we are not able to download or locate the original copy,
>> but the adopted document used in 2013 included the requirement that those
>> voting should be residing within the AFRINIC region.
>> >
>> > The elections committee has however never enforced this requirement
>> despite its presence in the elections guideline, which was presumably an
>> output of that review committee based on comments and feedback consequent
>> to the call for comments.
>> >
>> > The elections committee will therefore not be enforcing this
>> requirement in the coming election based on precedent.
>> >
>> > On the issue of remote participants voting, we have not provided for
>> this before, and unfortunately not at the upcoming election.
>> >
>> > We welcome and will include the community?s feedback towards improving
>> the current election processes.
>> >
>> > Ernest.
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 16 Jun 2019, at 09:08, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have some questions about the conduct of this election.
>> >>
>> >> First, I would think that the controlling document would be the CPM
>> and not some random webpage of unknown origin.
>> >>
>> >> Thus, I suggest that the rules (such as they are) are outlined in CPM
>> section 3 and that where the following page:
>> >>    https://afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#election
>> >>
>> >> Conflicts or provides additional restrictions, the CPM should be
>> controlling and additional restrictions specified there are not valid.
>> >>
>> >> I have not yet seen anyone answer Dewole?s earlier question about
>> where this procedure came from and how it was deployed without community
>> involvement or consensus.
>> >>
>> >> Amending the election procedure (or even making it more specific)
>> should be done through modification of the PDP via the PDP.
>> >>
>> >> It certainly should not be done ad hoc by AfriNIC staff, the board, or
>> whoever else produced that page.
>> >>
>> >> For example, it has never previously been the practice that one must
>> reside in a country within AfriNIC region in order to vote for PDWG
>> co-chair, nor should it be. AfriNIC policies affect those outside of the
>> region as well as those within the region and there are a significant
>> number of people active in the PDWG that do not live within the region,
>> myself included.
>> >>
>> >> No RIR that I know of restricts voting for PDWG co-chairs (or
>> equivalent) to those residing in the region.
>> >>
>> >> Then there is the question of remote participants voting.
>> >>
>> >> The CPM section 3.3 is silent on this matter for a normal election, so
>> that leaves an open question.
>> >> However, https://afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#election
>> states that you must be physically present in the room and must have a
>> badge showing that you have registered (assuming that they sort out the
>> irregularities with badge printing).
>> >>
>> >> Can we please get some clarification on the procedure for this
>> election at least 24 hours before the voting starts?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Owen
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Jun 9, 2019, at 1:51 AM, Dewole Ajao <dewole at forum.org.ng> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I was going to reply to say there are no standing rules on conduct of
>> PDWG elections but I see from the CPM that the PDP election process somehow
>> seems to have evolved. Can someone in the know please clarify how we came
>> about the detailed election notes outlined at
>> https://afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#election ? This is
>> bearing in mind that changes to the PDP can only be done via the PDP.
>> >>>
>> >>> My suggestion about giving the working group the option of retaining
>> the current co-chair was an attempt to avoid 2 co-chairs leaving after the
>> same meeting. Note that my suggested process allows the working group
>> members present (who are the deciders of who becomes co-chair) the option
>> of rejecting the default seat retention.
>> >>>
>> >>> In any case, all of this is speculation as a result of the NomCom
>> asking us what we think. At this point, it is over to Elections Committee
>> to tell us how they intend to handle this.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Dewole.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 6/8/2019 11:31 PM, Daniel Yakmut wrote:
>> >>>> I want to believe that we have standing rules on who is qualify to
>> be voted and how our elections should be conducted. I hope we not trying to
>> define new rules here.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We should stick to the rules and all candidates regardless should be
>> given a level playing field. i don't subscribe to allowing anyone giving
>> any special consideration.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In particular I believe that all the candidates that are
>> volunteering, could possibly some fresh air to the conduct of the PWDG. So
>> let us not disadvantage anyone.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So far NomCom have shown commitment to  a fair process and
>> maintaining that going forward will be important.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Simply,
>> >>>> Danile
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Jun 8, 2019, at 11:06 PM, Dewole Ajao <dewole at forum.org.ng>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sorry, the election slot is missing from the draft agenda I shared
>> earlier. It may be inefficient to have election at the start of the policy
>> day so it is planned to hold towards the end of the day. Holding the
>> election before the open mic will allow working group members also provide
>> feedback on the process during the open mic.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The contents of
>> https://www.afrinic.net/candidate-slate-for-pdwg-election-2019 remain
>> unchanged from the pre-protest announcement. Perhaps we should wait for
>> NomCom to tell the working group who the co-chair candidates are (before we
>> start the questioning)? For future PDWG elections, the questions could be
>> included as part of the information to provide during the nominations
>> stage. Or maybe some have already been asked by NomCom and the candidates
>> only need to decide what they wish to share with us.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> One would imagine that the Elections Committee already has a plan
>> for incorporating remote participants who will naturally expect to
>> participate in the co-chair selection as allowed by the PDP.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>> Dewole.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 6/8/2019 10:07 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>> >>>>>> Hi Dewole, all,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I will agree with your suggestion, it is very important to keep
>> continuity of the existing co-chairs.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Also, I think to avoid wasting precious time, it may be good to
>> consider running the election at the end of the open mic, so even if the
>> election process is delayed for whatever, reason, the PDP discussion time
>> is respected.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> One of the elected co-chairs will be running for just one year, or
>> how it will be handled in order to get the staggered terms?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Finally, I've a question for the NomCom and the PDP-chair
>> candidates. And I think this is very important for a successful knowledge
>> by the community to whom they are electing. This is not about electing
>> "your best friend for driving a party", but the people that better knows
>> the PDP and has already been following it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> So, I will like to know, for each of the candidates, since when
>> they have been in the RPD mailing list, how they have contributed in the
>> discussions in the list and meetings, or even with policy proposals. How
>> the candidates are going to support the PDP, increase community
>> participation, etc. Also, we need to understand if they have actively
>> supported or non-supported any of the actual policy proposals, so we can
>> avoid electing two chairs that may have a bias on the same policy proposal.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Reading the actual CVs at
>> https://www.afrinic.net/candidate-slate-for-pdwg-election-2019, I don't
>> think all the candidates have that information right now.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> So, can the NomCom prepare a document answering (with verified
>> responses to some extent) those questions for each of the candidate and
>> publish it together with the CVs ?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>> Jordi
>> >>>>>> ?El 8/6/19 21:10, "Dewole Ajao" <dewole at forum.org.ng> escribi?:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    A simple solution to clear any confusion would be for the
>> Nomination
>> >>>>>>    Committee to send out a fresh announcement listing the final
>> slate of
>> >>>>>>    candidates after their considerations have been done.
>> >>>>>>         Elections Committee should at this point also state how
>> the seats would
>> >>>>>>    be filled so that everyone is clear about that. There have been
>> >>>>>>    suggestions on how to fill the positions; better to sort them
>> out now
>> >>>>>>    rather than waste scarce time on the policy day.
>> >>>>>>         My suggestion (and I may be biased) is this:
>> >>>>>>    Since a current co-chair (Sami) is running, show of hands to
>> see if the
>> >>>>>>    working group is in support of Sami retaining his seat. If
>> majority in
>> >>>>>>    support of Sami continuing, then remainder of the election is
>> for one
>> >>>>>>    seat going to whichever of the remaining candidates has the
>> maximum votes.
>> >>>>>>         If the outcome of the first vote is not in favour of
>> current co-chair
>> >>>>>>    taking a seat by default, then second round of voting can be
>> for 2 seats
>> >>>>>>    possibly using the option of higher votes getting the longer
>> term.
>> >>>>>>         Again, this is just my point of view.
>> >>>>>>         Regards,
>> >>>>>>         Dewole.
>> >>>>>>>         On 6/8/2019 5:25 PM, Ish Sookun wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Hi Serge,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 6/8/19 2:21 PM, Iyedi Goma wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> The Nomination Committee reviewed the nomination of the persons
>> who
>> >>>>>>>> submitted their documentation.  The Nomination Committee Chair
>> contacted
>> >>>>>>>> each nominee to notify him/her of the decision.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Is this particular update referring to all the nominees, nominees
>> that
>> >>>>>>> complained or only nominees that remained after the NomCom filter.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The text "persons who submitted their documentation" requires more
>> >>>>>>> clarity IMHO.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Ish Sookun
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> RPD mailing list
>> >>>>>>> RPD at afrinic.net
>> >>>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> >>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>    RPD mailing list
>> >>>>>>    RPD at afrinic.net
>> >>>>>>    https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> **********************************************
>> >>>>>> IPv4 is over
>> >>>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> >>>>>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> >>>>>> The IPv6 Company
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be
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>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:05:12 +0300 (EAT)
>> From: Pascal ANDRIANISA <pascal at irenala.edu.mg>
>> To: ishola kabir <isholakabir at gmail.com>
>> Cc: rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] IPV4 inter-RIR Legacy Resources Transfer.
>> Message-ID:
>>         <1103848571.189374.1560837912327.JavaMail.zimbra at irenala.edu.mg>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear Ishola Kabir,
>> I think the transfer of inter-RIR does not benefit AFRINIC for the simple
>> reason that AFRINIC's resources are not enough for its region.
>>
>> Regard,
>>
>>
>>
>> Pascal Heriliva ANDRIANISA
>> Webmaster i RENALA
>> R esearch and E ducation N etwork for A cademic and L earning A ctivities
>> - [ http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ | http://www.irenala.edu.mg/ ]
>> Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la Recherche
>> Scientifique - Fiadanana
>> GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29 | +261 (0) 34 30 680 29
>>
>>
>> De: "ishola kabir" <isholakabir at gmail.com>
>> ?: rpd at afrinic.net
>> Envoy?: Lundi 17 Juin 2019 17:17:58
>> Objet: Re: [rpd] IPV4 inter-RIR Legacy Resources Transfer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I stand to support the policy on proposal of IPV4 inter-RIR legacy
>> resources transfer.
>>
>>
>> We're running out of IPV4 resources and the Regional Internet Registries
>> (RIRs) have started to run out of of IPV4 resources as well. IPv4 inter-RIR
>> legacy resources from and to other regions will offer a realistic solution
>> to the problem of reclaiming the significant amount of unused IPV4
>> resources and allocating them to their most efficient users. The transfer
>> will be subject to the need to main route aggregation and allow resources
>> not in used in one region to be transferred to a region where it is needed.
>>
>>
>> Preventing IPv4 Inter-RIR Legacy Resource Transfers would only push the
>> demand and supply pressures surrounding the scarcity of resources into
>> different channel such as the holder of this unused resources will do
>> everything within their power for continued possession of this resources
>> for purpose of black market, increase their value in an acquisition.
>>
>>
>> Inter-RIR Legacy would definitely allows organization willing to release
>> address resources to benefit monetarily by selling them to another region
>> who wants them subject to the record keeping requirements and regulation of
>> inter regional legacy instead of being hijacked or use without
>> authorization.
>>
>>
>> It is very obvious that the risk associated with this will be very small
>> when compare to the potential benefit and this will also reinforce
>> effectiveness of the inter Regional Internet Address Registries in global
>> internet governance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:19:24 +0200
>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> To: rpd at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] IPV4 inter-RIR Legacy Resources Transfer.
>> Message-ID: <e927753c-91b9-364f-ba24-22613d8fc362 at posix.co.za>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> IPv4 resources were never enough for the world (Four-ish billion IP
>> addresses). That's why IPv6 was created. The other four RIR's have
>> basically run out of IPv4 - which to an extent has forced them to adopt
>> IPv6. In a perverse way - its actually bad for Africa to NOT have run
>> out as we lazily continue to deploy IPv4 - last years technology as
>> such.. Better to move straight to IPv6 before we are too weighed down by
>> the legacy restrictiveness of IPv4 addresses.
>>
>> Also - the Transfer Policy would generally need to be bidirectional so
>> that other RIR regions will allow the transfer of IPv4 resources into
>> Africa - that is, play on an equal footing - if indeed some of the
>> larger African ISP's need to acquire more IPv4 addresses.
>>
>> If an African LIR/ISP does sell IPv4 resources to another region then
>> the capitol will probably be used to expand that LIR's business -
>> presumably in an IPv6 direction - which would be beneficial to that
>> LIR's customers and to an extent, the rest of our community.
>>
>> Just think, for the first time ever, we get to dump old technology onto
>> "developed" countries rather than the other way around.
>>
>> On 2019/06/18 08:05, Pascal ANDRIANISA wrote:
>> > Dear Ishola Kabir, I think the transfer of inter-RIR does not benefit
>> > AFRINIC for the simple reason that AFRINIC's resources are not enough
>> > for its region. Regard,
>> >
>> > *Pascal* Heriliva ANDRIANISA
>> > Webmaster i RENALA
>> > *R*esearch and *E*ducation *N*etwork for *A*cademic and *L*earning
>> > *A*ctivities - http://www.irenala.edu.mg/
>> > Porte 201 - Minist?re de l'Enseignement Sup?rieur et de la Recherche
>> > Scientifique - Fiadanana_
>> > GSM :+261 (0) 32 46 680 29?? |??? +261 (0) 34 30 680 29_
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > *De: *"ishola kabir" <isholakabir at gmail.com>
>> > *?: *rpd at afrinic.net
>> > *Envoy?: *Lundi 17 Juin 2019 17:17:58
>> > *Objet: *Re: [rpd] IPV4 inter-RIR Legacy Resources Transfer.
>> >
>> >
>> > I stand to support the policy on proposal of IPV4 inter-RIR legacy
>> > resources transfer.
>> >
>> > We're running out of IPV4 resources and the Regional Internet
>> > Registries (RIRs) have started to run out of of IPV4 resources as
>> > well. IPv4 inter-RIR legacy resources from and to other regions will
>> > offer a realistic solution to the problem of reclaiming the
>> > significant amount of unused IPV4 resources and allocating them to
>> > their most efficient users. The transfer will be subject to the need
>> > to main route aggregation and allow resources not in used in one
>> > region to be transferred to a region where it is needed.
>> >
>> > Preventing IPv4 Inter-RIR Legacy Resource Transfers would only push
>> > the demand ?and supply pressures surrounding the scarcity of resources
>> > into different channel such as the holder of this unused resources
>> > will do everything within their power for continued possession of this
>> > resources for purpose of black market, increase their value in an
>> > acquisition.
>> >
>> > Inter-RIR Legacy would definitely allows organization willing to
>> > release address resources to benefit monetarily by selling them to
>> > another region who wants them subject to the record keeping
>> > requirements and regulation of inter regional legacy instead of being
>> > hijacked or use without authorization.
>> >
>> > It is very obvious that the risk associated with this will be very
>> > small when compare to the potential benefit and this will also
>> > reinforce effectiveness of the inter Regional Internet Address
>> > Registries in global internet governance.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > RPD mailing list
>> > RPD at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > RPD mailing list
>> > RPD at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>
>> --
>> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>
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>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of RPD Digest, Vol 153, Issue 66
>> ************************************
>>
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