[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Sami's status as a co-chair

Thu Dec 6 11:38:10 UTC 2018

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 6:20 PM <rpd-request at afrinic.net> wrote:

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>    1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Sami's status as a co-chair
>       (Frank Habicht)
>    2. Re: [Community-Discuss]  Sami's status as a co-chair
>       (Andrew Alston)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 12:57:51 +0300
> From: Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz>
> To: rpd at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Sami's status as a co-chair
> Message-ID: <e7f8dbbb-c301-50b1-f137-1c2eb756571d at geier.ne.tz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I just would like to comment...
>
> On 06/12/2018 12:39, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > This should resolve the issues around the legitimacy of an hard-working
> > volunteer, for the job no one else wants to do, so that the community
> > can move on.
>
> ... that I know of one person who wanted to do the job.
>
>
> and i wanted to bring this back to RPD mailing list only.
>
> Frank
>
>
> > Moving on, is without prejudice to the rights and intention of other
> > parties to appeal or not appeal if and when the last call is made by the
> > legitimate callers - the Co-Chairs.
> >
> > Apologies for the cross-posting.
> >
> > Kind Regards ..
> >
> > R.SF.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 10:19:00 +0000
> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>, "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource
>         Policy" <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss]  Sami's status as a co-chair
> Message-ID:
>         <
> DB6PR0301MB2567425ACB923DAB67A6A2F1EEA90 at DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Sunday,
>
> Have taken this back to the RPD list now ? because this email is specific
> to policy.
>
> We cannot just ?move on here? ? there are critical questions to now be
> answered.  We have clear acknowledgement that the minutes were wrong and
> the term had expired.
>
> The question is ? what do we do now ? because the fact is ? a decision was
> made in a scenario that was far from ideal ? a decision which myself and
> multiple others have announced their intention to appeal ? however ? if we
> are saying that because the decision making process was invalid by the
> sitting of a chair that did not have mandate ? then potentially appeals can
> be avoided because the decision itself is void.
>
> It is critical that we now figure out ? what the full implications of this
> are and what we do about it ? because it may have a material impact on the
> process going forward in the next few days.  It is not sufficient to simply
> say it happened ? we ignore it.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> Sent: 06 December 2018 12:40
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; rpd
> >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair
>
> Greetings,
>
> This should resolve the issues around the legitimacy of an hard-working
> volunteer, for the job no one else wants to do, so that the community
> can move on.
>
> Moving on, is without prejudice to the rights and intention of other
> parties to appeal or not appeal if and when the last call is made by the
> legitimate callers - the Co-Chairs.
>
> Apologies for the cross-posting.
>
> Kind Regards ..
>
> R.SF.
>
> On 06/12/2018 09:01, Ernest Byaruhanga wrote:
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Here is some background information on the matter of Sami?s term as
> co-chair of the Policy Development Working Group.
> >
> > On the 07 of June 2018, minutes of the AFRINIC28 public policy meeting
> were published on the AFRINIC website and shared with the co-chairs.
> >
> > The minutes are published at
> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28<
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28>
> >
> > The last two bullets of minute 6.1 read as follows:
> >
> > ----------
> > ? Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to continue as co-chair
> till there is a process in future to find a new co-chair.
> > ? Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami to continue as
> co-chair till the next scheduled nominations period. There was strong
> support to have Sami continue ? and he was therefore tasked to serve as
> temporary co-chair until the next scheduled nominations season.
> > ?????
> >
> > The above is what guided Sami (and AFRINIC) to believe that his tenure
> would run "until the next scheduled nominations season?, which is next year
> at AIS/AFRINIC30 (2019).
> >
> > Looking at the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY<
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY>, it?s clear that the
> recorded minute above did not accurately reflect what was discussed.
> >
> > Apologies for the confusion.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ernest.
> >
> >
> >> On 6 Dec 2018, at 10:38, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Arnaud,
> >>
> >> My motivation ? when I found this situation and duly acted on it ? was
> simple ? to gather the evidence required to prove that the process had not
> been followed in the passing of this policy ? the fact that while looking
> for other evidence to document all the objections that made this policy
> fail in Dakar, I came across this ? is immaterial sometimes when you are
> documenting evidence to form solid and legitimate groundwork for an appeal
> when you know for a fact that process has not been followed, you come
> across things that you hadn?t seen before ? that require action.
> >>
> >> If by ?Is this what we can expect from Liquid? you refer to me
> personally insisting on adherence to process and adherence to the bylaws ?
> then yes ? that is what you can expect, please remember ? in the context of
> the PDP ? companies typically do not take the floor ? individuals from the
> community do. When and if I am speaking on behalf of my employer ? I have
> always made this extremely clear.
> >>
> >> As for the vague insinuations about cross-checked data ? yes ? my data
> was wrong ? it happens and I?ve admitted that ? it happened because I
> relied on published data that I downloaded from a source that I believed to
> be trusted and didn?t verify it ? my mistake and I apologise for that ?
> however, that is not really relevant to the discussion at hand and is, in
> my opinion, you doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing, conflating
> issues to try and discredit something legitimate. I refer to my previous
> email about members of this community engaging in ?whataboutism? (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism<
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>) ? this is case in point.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com<mailto:amelnaud at gmail.com>>
> >> Sent: 06 December 2018 09:07
> >> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:
> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> >> Cc: abel ELITCHA <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com<mailto:kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>>;
> rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>;
> General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:
> community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair
> >>
> >> Andrew,
> >>
> >> Why do you always react following your ego and pursuing personal
> interest and not community interest? When you started this palaver on last
> call and Sami tenure, you tried on community-discuss to use data you have
> not cross checked to discredit the organization performance. What is your
> real motive? Is this what we should expect from Liquid telecom all along ?
> >>
> >> Arnaud
> >>
> >> Le mer. 5 d?c. 2018 20:10, Andrew Alston <
> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> a ?crit :
> >> Komi,
> >>
> >> You cannot rewrite the mandate granted by the community in the minutes.
> >>
> >> Fact ? the reality is ? the community voted ? clearly ? on a 6 month
> mandate ? that is indisputable fact.
> >> Fact ? that mandate expired
> >>
> >> What the *minutes* say does not change the reality of a video recorded
> meeting.
> >>
> >> When the issue was raised ? is immaterial ? the context of the issue
> being raised ? is immaterial ? fact ? is fact ? the mandate was granted ?
> the mandate expired.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com<mailto:kmw.elitcha at gmail.com
> >>
> >> Date: Wednesday, 5 December 2018 at 21:30
> >> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:
> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> >> Cc: "AfriNIC RPD MList." <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair
> >>
> >> Hello Andrew,
> >>
> >> The minutes(*) of the PPM of AFRINIC-28 was published by co-chairs as
> mandated by the PDP.
> >>
> >> The cochair election sections (6.1) read:
> >>
> >> [....]
> >>
> >> "The Elections Committee asked for a show of hands for those in favor,
> and those not in favor of Mark Elkins? candidature. After a show of hands,
> there were 22 in favor and 56 not in favor of Mark?s candidature.
> >> NomCom Chair called for nominations from the floor to fill the empty
> PDWG co-chair seat.
> >> There were suggestions that the position be filled by a temporary
> co-chair until there?s another nominations process to find a replacement
> co-chair.
> >> Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to continue as co-chair till
> there is a process in future to find a new co-chair.
> >> Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami to continue as
> co-chair till the next scheduled nominations period. There was strong
> support to have Sami continue ? and he was therefore tasked to serve as
> temporary co-chair until the next scheduled nominations season."
> >>
> >> Practices at AFRINIC is that Elections are held mostly during the
> community meeting coupled with AGMM. So it is not surprising to see that
> the PDWG admin page(**) lists Sami as cochair with term June2016 - June2019.
> >>
> >> This probably explains why an election process was not triggered for
> the AFRINIC-29.
> >>
> >> Nobody raised an alarm when the 77 days before election day passed (15
> September 2018) and there was no nomination process.Furthermore, at the
> beginning of the PPM in Hammamet, there was no objection to Sami chairing
> the meeting.
> >>
> >> Making all these noises, and challenging Sami right to operate at the
> meeting and moving on, just because Co-chairs made a decision one does not
> like is not responsible.
> >>
> >> Decency would have required the separation of issues appropriately
> handling them through other mechanisms, which would normally be more
> consensual with interest in conflict resolution an in an appealing manner .
> >>
> >>
> >> Hope this helps
> >>
> >>
> >> -Komi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> (*)
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28<
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28>
> >> (**)https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#admin<
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#admin>
> >>
> >> Le mar. 4 d?c. 2018 ? 4:52 PM, Andrew Alston <
> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> a ?crit :
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I want to clarify something ? to be very sure.
> >>
> >> If I am correct ? there was no election of a PDP co-chair in Tunisia.
> Can someone please confirm that? Because if there was no election ? we only
> have ONE chair at the moment ? and Sami?s status as a co-chair has lapsed
> and he cannot adjudicate on consensus.
> >>
> >> I say this ? because in Dakar ? and for those of you that were not
> there, please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY<
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY> at about 13 minutes in,
> Sami?s position was granted as interim only ? and only for the following 6
> months until the next PDP.
> >>
> >> So ? unless there was an election called ? and video evidence of this ?
> Sami is no longer eligible to act in the position of co-chair ? since his
> mandate was not granted by this community on the floor of a meeting, and as
> per the legal counsel at the Dakar meeting ? any position into which Sami
> entered ? was only valid until the November meeting, and the co-chair goes
> on, on record on the microphone to further state that Sami was only
> appointed ?Until the next PDP meeting?
> >>
> >> Sami ? on that note, thank you for your service as the interim co-chair
> over the preceeding 6 months.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
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