[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Sami's status as a co-chair

Thu Dec 6 10:19:00 UTC 2018

Sunday,

Have taken this back to the RPD list now – because this email is specific to policy.

We cannot just “move on here” – there are critical questions to now be answered.  We have clear acknowledgement that the minutes were wrong and the term had expired.

The question is – what do we do now – because the fact is – a decision was made in a scenario that was far from ideal – a decision which myself and multiple others have announced their intention to appeal – however – if we are saying that because the decision making process was invalid by the sitting of a chair that did not have mandate – then potentially appeals can be avoided because the decision itself is void.

It is critical that we now figure out – what the full implications of this are and what we do about it – because it may have a material impact on the process going forward in the next few days.  It is not sufficient to simply say it happened – we ignore it.

Andrew

From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
Sent: 06 December 2018 12:40
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair

Greetings,

This should resolve the issues around the legitimacy of an hard-working
volunteer, for the job no one else wants to do, so that the community
can move on.

Moving on, is without prejudice to the rights and intention of other
parties to appeal or not appeal if and when the last call is made by the
legitimate callers - the Co-Chairs.

Apologies for the cross-posting.

Kind Regards ..

R.SF.

On 06/12/2018 09:01, Ernest Byaruhanga wrote:
> Colleagues,
>
> Here is some background information on the matter of Sami’s term as co-chair of the Policy Development Working Group.
>
> On the 07 of June 2018, minutes of the AFRINIC28 public policy meeting were published on the AFRINIC website and shared with the co-chairs.
>
> The minutes are published at
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28<https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28>
>
> The last two bullets of minute 6.1 read as follows:
>
> ----------
> • Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to continue as co-chair till there is a process in future to find a new co-chair.
> • Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami to continue as co-chair till the next scheduled nominations period. There was strong support to have Sami continue – and he was therefore tasked to serve as temporary co-chair until the next scheduled nominations season.
> —————
>
> The above is what guided Sami (and AFRINIC) to believe that his tenure would run "until the next scheduled nominations season”, which is next year at AIS/AFRINIC30 (2019).
>
> Looking at the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY>, it’s clear that the recorded minute above did not accurately reflect what was discussed.
>
> Apologies for the confusion.
>
> Regards,
> Ernest.
>
>
>> On 6 Dec 2018, at 10:38, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Arnaud,
>>
>> My motivation – when I found this situation and duly acted on it – was simple – to gather the evidence required to prove that the process had not been followed in the passing of this policy – the fact that while looking for other evidence to document all the objections that made this policy fail in Dakar, I came across this – is immaterial sometimes when you are documenting evidence to form solid and legitimate groundwork for an appeal when you know for a fact that process has not been followed, you come across things that you hadn’t seen before – that require action.
>>
>> If by “Is this what we can expect from Liquid” you refer to me personally insisting on adherence to process and adherence to the bylaws – then yes – that is what you can expect, please remember – in the context of the PDP – companies typically do not take the floor – individuals from the community do. When and if I am speaking on behalf of my employer – I have always made this extremely clear.
>>
>> As for the vague insinuations about cross-checked data – yes – my data was wrong – it happens and I’ve admitted that – it happened because I relied on published data that I downloaded from a source that I believed to be trusted and didn’t verify it – my mistake and I apologise for that – however, that is not really relevant to the discussion at hand and is, in my opinion, you doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing, conflating issues to try and discredit something legitimate. I refer to my previous email about members of this community engaging in “whataboutism” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism>) – this is case in point.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com<mailto:amelnaud at gmail.com>>
>> Sent: 06 December 2018 09:07
>> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
>> Cc: abel ELITCHA <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com<mailto:kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>>; rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>; General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair
>>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Why do you always react following your ego and pursuing personal interest and not community interest? When you started this palaver on last call and Sami tenure, you tried on community-discuss to use data you have not cross checked to discredit the organization performance. What is your real motive? Is this what we should expect from Liquid telecom all along ?
>>
>> Arnaud
>>
>> Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 20:10, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> a écrit :
>> Komi,
>>
>> You cannot rewrite the mandate granted by the community in the minutes.
>>
>> Fact – the reality is – the community voted – clearly – on a 6 month mandate – that is indisputable fact.
>> Fact – that mandate expired
>>
>> What the *minutes* say does not change the reality of a video recorded meeting.
>>
>> When the issue was raised – is immaterial – the context of the issue being raised – is immaterial – fact – is fact – the mandate was granted – the mandate expired.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> From: Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com<mailto:kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>>
>> Date: Wednesday, 5 December 2018 at 21:30
>> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
>> Cc: "AfriNIC RPD MList." <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair
>>
>> Hello Andrew,
>>
>> The minutes(*) of the PPM of AFRINIC-28 was published by co-chairs as mandated by the PDP.
>>
>> The cochair election sections (6.1) read:
>>
>> [....]
>>
>> "The Elections Committee asked for a show of hands for those in favor, and those not in favor of Mark Elkins’ candidature. After a show of hands, there were 22 in favor and 56 not in favor of Mark’s candidature.
>> NomCom Chair called for nominations from the floor to fill the empty PDWG co-chair seat.
>> There were suggestions that the position be filled by a temporary co-chair until there’s another nominations process to find a replacement co-chair.
>> Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to continue as co-chair till there is a process in future to find a new co-chair.
>> Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami to continue as co-chair till the next scheduled nominations period. There was strong support to have Sami continue – and he was therefore tasked to serve as temporary co-chair until the next scheduled nominations season."
>>
>> Practices at AFRINIC is that Elections are held mostly during the community meeting coupled with AGMM. So it is not surprising to see that the PDWG admin page(**) lists Sami as cochair with term June2016 - June2019.
>>
>> This probably explains why an election process was not triggered for the AFRINIC-29.
>>
>> Nobody raised an alarm when the 77 days before election day passed (15 September 2018) and there was no nomination process.Furthermore, at the beginning of the PPM in Hammamet, there was no objection to Sami chairing the meeting.
>>
>> Making all these noises, and challenging Sami right to operate at the meeting and moving on, just because Co-chairs made a decision one does not like is not responsible.
>>
>> Decency would have required the separation of issues appropriately handling them through other mechanisms, which would normally be more consensual with interest in conflict resolution an in an appealing manner .
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>>
>> -Komi
>>
>>
>>
>> (*) https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28<https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28>
>> (**)https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#admin<https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group#admin>
>>
>> Le mar. 4 déc. 2018 à 4:52 PM, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> a écrit :
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I want to clarify something – to be very sure.
>>
>> If I am correct – there was no election of a PDP co-chair in Tunisia. Can someone please confirm that? Because if there was no election – we only have ONE chair at the moment – and Sami’s status as a co-chair has lapsed and he cannot adjudicate on consensus.
>>
>> I say this – because in Dakar – and for those of you that were not there, please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY> at about 13 minutes in, Sami’s position was granted as interim only – and only for the following 6 months until the next PDP.
>>
>> So – unless there was an election called – and video evidence of this – Sami is no longer eligible to act in the position of co-chair – since his mandate was not granted by this community on the floor of a meeting, and as per the legal counsel at the Dakar meeting – any position into which Sami entered – was only valid until the November meeting, and the co-chair goes on, on record on the microphone to further state that Sami was only appointed “Until the next PDP meeting”
>>
>> Sami – on that note, thank you for your service as the interim co-chair over the preceeding 6 months.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
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