[rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Mon Dec 3 13:05:39 UTC 2018

Sami,

As I have already announced - I have every plan to appeal your decision to put this into last call - I have made that VERY clear - I am awaiting a response from the PDWG Appeal Committee to answer my questions before doing so.  This is not a legal process - it is part of the PDP process - you make a decision - myself - and numerous others on this list that have voiced their opinions - do not believe that you correctly followed process and that the PROCESS was violated - and hence - we wish to appeal that.  Believe me - _IF_ we get to legal processes  - rather than PDP processes that are defined in the PDP process - it will be ABUNDENTLY clear - and there will be NO mistaking a legal process from a PDP process.

I am attempting to get clarification as to your thinking as a co-chair so that when I frame that appeal - I understand your thinking - because for all you know - it may change my mind about the appeal - but - my comments and questions around the appeal are separate from my comments and questions as regards the content of the policy.

I question how you can claim process was followed when a policy reached last call without any modification while there were standing and substantive objections going back multiple years - and I question where you draw from the PDP process that the comments and objections raised in previous meetings should be discarded in the evaluation of consensus. This has absolutely nothing to do with the content of the proposal - it has to do with the process that I believe - and others have stated they believe - was violated.

You have a very nice way of avoiding my questions - since I still have not had any clarification as to how you justify discarding comments and objections that have been made to this policy over multiple years - that have not been addressed.  Nor do I see any comment from you or your co-chair about the fact that individuals have come onto this list saying that multiple issues were raised at the microphone which were summarily discarded by the authors instead of being addressed.

Andrew

From: Sami Salih <sami.salih at outlook.com>
Sent: 03 December 2018 15:54
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>; Ernest Byaruhanga <ernest at afrinic.net>; Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com>
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Andrew

Did you counted how many times you used the word "appeal" in last two days ?
Instead of threatening the community with this legal proccess would you please try to believe in the people in the community and contribute to enhance the mentioned proposal and the process as a whole as you confirm some of your questions has been answered.
Finally, I'm here to defend the proccess but not the content of any proposal and as co-chair I stand in a similar distance from all opinions.

BR

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355
________________________________
From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 3:37 PM
To: Sami Salih; Ernest Byaruhanga; Daniel Yakmut
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy
Subject: RE: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

I did not question if there was an error letting the policy come up for discussion - that question - was asked by another.

I question how it could have reached consensus without any modification - and without all substantial issues being addressed - and considering that a multitude of issues raised in previous emails and on the mailing lists have never been dealt with and have been discarded.  My other questions have been answered - and I have made my notes as regards those answers, which may or may not form input into a forthcoming appeal.

Andrew

From: Sami Salih <sami.salih at outlook.com<mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com>>
Sent: 03 December 2018 15:33
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>; Ernest Byaruhanga <ernest at afrinic.net<mailto:ernest at afrinic.net>>; Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com<mailto:yakmutd at googlemail.com>>
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Dear Andrew,

I allways try to spare the community time by not repeating things, you ask a question and I tried to answer, would you please first confirmed that your 1st inqury has been addressed, then you can ask new questions.

Here we are tring to develop policies to the benefit of the community, and not exhausted our selves with series of questions and repeat them. I hope you understand my logic and I hope its not ""severely flawed"" any more.

BR

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355

________________________________

From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 3:09 PM
To: Sami Salih; Ernest Byaruhanga; Daniel Yakmut
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy
Subject: RE: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Sami,

The line of thinking is severely flawed - firstly - you have the objections from the mailing lists - are you assuming that comments from the mailing lists between meetings disappear some how at the end of a meeting?

Are you saying that a community member who cannot afford to fly to every meeting has his input disregarded from one meeting to the next?

This does not make any logical sense in my mind... and prejuidices towards the voices of people who can afford to travel meeting to meeting to meeting - be it on their own dime, their companies dime, or sponsored.

Andrew

From: Sami Salih <sami.salih at outlook.com<mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com>>
Sent: 03 December 2018 15:02
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>; Ernest Byaruhanga <ernest at afrinic.net<mailto:ernest at afrinic.net>>; Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com<mailto:yakmutd at googlemail.com>>
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Dear Andrew,

Daniel's inqury was "Can I then conclude that the PDP Co-Chairs erred to have allowed the policy come.up.for discussion in Tunisia."

and I point him to the answer.

Now, you inqury was also replied to this morning, see the link

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008718.html<https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008718.html>

BR

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355

________________________________

From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 2:51 PM
To: Sami Salih; Ernest Byaruhanga; Daniel Yakmut
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy
Subject: RE: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Sami,

Actually the below link far from addresses the question at hand.

How does a policy gain consensus when it failed to gain it once before - without the concerns and substantive issues being addressed.  Either someone would have to withdraw their objections - or the objections which resulted in the failure of consensus would have to be addressed - which would at least in certain cases reflect in a change of the text.

Yes - the policy is still active - but it is active without consensus - since there is no way that consensus can reached without either a change in the policy or an explicit withdrawal of the MULTITUDE of objections that have been raised against this policy, so can the co-chairs please explain how this can happen in their view - because I think myself, and others are VERY confused as to how consensus could have been gained here.

Andrew

From: Sami Salih <sami.salih at outlook.com<mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com>>
Sent: 03 December 2018 14:44
To: Ernest Byaruhanga <ernest at afrinic.net<mailto:ernest at afrinic.net>>; Daniel Yakmut <yakmutd at googlemail.com<mailto:yakmutd at googlemail.com>>
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Dear Daniel,

Your question has already addressed in a previous email this morning, So I hope you carefully follow the thread in the list to avoid unnecessary repetition.

Please refer to this link

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008715.html<https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008715.html>

Regards,

PDWG Co-Chairs

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355

________________________________

From: Daniel Yakmut via RPD <rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 2:24 PM
To: Ernest Byaruhanga
Cc: rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy
Subject: Re: [rpd] Opposing the last call made on the review policy

Thank you Ernest for your kind response. This clearly showed that the authors of the Review Policy do not care about any input from the community.

>From the last date of submission, it means nothing was considered by the authors from input made in Dakar meeting.

This means the policy remained as is without any input or review for over six months. Making it stale and should have been dicarded.

Can I then conclude that the PDP Co-Chairs erred to have allowed the policy come.up.for discussion in Tunisia.

Is there no case of disregard for rules here?

Cheers

Daniel

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018, 12:04 PM Ernest Byaruhanga <ernest at afrinic.net<mailto:ernest at afrinic.net>> wrote:

Nishal,

> have there been any updates to this policy since the previous meeting.

No.

Version 6 was received on 10 April 2018, and no newer version thereafter.

More info:
https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d6#details<https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d6#details>

Ernest.

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