[rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 136, Issue 10

Wed Jan 3 18:23:28 UTC 2018

Boubacar,

You are right. Un my point of view, Afrinic must use democratic way doing
thinks. It is not just because one person in the organization have his own
interest (business) and want lead it at Afrinic.
For the Policy, I think the board must check how must people are against
before to remove it or change something.

Afrinic it is for Africa not for one person. So, every Africa citizen must
get part on that.

Regards
Grace Mupoyi

Le 3 janv. 2018 7:04 PM, <rpd-request at afrinic.net> a écrit :

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Softlanding-Bis decision appeal (Boubakar Barry)
>    2. Re: Softlanding-Bis decision appeal (Owen DeLong)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 15:50:25 +0000
> From: Boubakar Barry <boubakarbarry at gmail.com>
> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGrBSShOECh+jZv7Zd8adY_r_3NGtTp2dNwnApf1QRmVNhhUtA@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Large segment of the community? I wonder how one can get to this statement.
>
> Facts remain facts, no matter how often one repeats him/herself. One can
> write/talk hundreds of times, his/her voice cannot count more than once.
>
> Yes, I know we are not voting here. But if one looks objectively at the
> number of people (the same ones) who are opposing this and other policies
> aiming at preserving IP resources for Africa, then it becomes clear that a
> small group of people wants to hold AfriNIC at ransom. And this is going on
> for years.
>
> No one who cares about Africa's interests should accept that.
>
> Boubakar
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Andrew Alston <
> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
> > As you say Noah - agreeing to disagree is ok and normal - so why can we
> > not do that in the case of this proposal - there are a large segment of
> the
> > community who disagree with it - and if we agreed to disagree - we go
> back
> > to the status quo and there is no consensus - instead it seems we are
> being
> > ?forced to agree? - but for all the reasons stated and reiterated and
> never
> > responded to - we will not be forced into agreement on this policy - we
> > disagree with it - let?s agree to disagree and move on with life - and
> the
> > status quo (the current soft landing)
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > _____________________________
> > From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal
> > To: Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz>
> > Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 Jan 2018 16:00, "Frank Habicht" <geier at geier.ne.tz> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 1/3/2018 3:45 PM, Noah wrote:
> > > Hi Frank,
> > >
> > > I believe your points raised above were addressed and repeated many
> > > times and archives are there, but just to retariate that;
> > >
> > > 1. The global community accepted in 2009 a softlanding policy which
> > > granted AFRINIC just like other regions this last /8.
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > 2. AFRINIC would not have had that last /8 if the  normal allocation
> > > rules had continued to the end on IANA pool (need based and 1st come,
> > > 1st serve)
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > 3. The last /8 which is a subject of the current softlanding policy and
> > > all the proposals we've seen to amend it was meant for specific
> > > purposes. Please
> > > read  https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/13
> > 5-afpub-2009-v4-001
> > > <https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-afp
> > ub-2009-v4-001>
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > 4. Nobody, not even AFRINIC is locking useful numbering resources as
> > > allocations will continue as usual, folks are encouraged to adopt IPv6
> > > and provision is made for resource members to facilitate the
> transition.
> >
> > As per the softlanding policy already in place.
> > And the need to change to more stringent criteria ... ?
> > ... is in my opinion not something we have a consensus about.
> >
> >
> > Ok
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe if you say there is a consensus and I say there is no
> > consensus, then the conclusion is that there is no consensus between us,
> > or even in the larger group.
> >
> >
> > IMHO, the co-chairs are best placed to determine consensus vs no
> consensus.
> >
> >
> > Would you agree to these statements?
> >
> >
> > If its just between me and you... we can agree to disagree and that is
> > normal.
> >
> > Noah
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:59:53 -0800
> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> To: Boubakar Barry <boubakarbarry at gmail.com>
> Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal
> Message-ID: <263891D9-1D0B-473C-AE90-5F33FA88352D at delong.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> > On Jan 3, 2018, at 07:50 , Boubakar Barry <boubakarbarry at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Large segment of the community? I wonder how one can get to this
> statement.
> >
> > Facts remain facts, no matter how often one repeats him/herself. One can
> write/talk hundreds of times, his/her voice cannot count more than once.
>
> True.
>
> However, more than 20 petitioners, Andrew Alston, myself (Owen DeLong),
> Mark Elkins, Sander Steffan, Frank Habicht, Saul Stein, and others have all
> spoken out against this proposal. That?s more than 25 people in a community
> where the total number of participants in a policy debate is often less
> than 50. Indeed, I think the number of participants in this case is
> probably less than 100. If you don?t think that 25+ constitutes a large
> segment of ~100 people, then I?d like to know how you come to that
> conclusion.
>
> You don?t have to be a majority to be a large segment of a population.
>
> > Yes, I know we are not voting here. But if one looks objectively at the
> number of people (the same ones) who are opposing this and other policies
> aiming at preserving IP resources for Africa, then it becomes clear that a
> small group of people wants to hold AfriNIC at ransom. And this is going on
> for years.
>
> Please.
>
> This policy doesn?t preserve resources. It prevents them from being used.
> The same number of resources will exist whether they are sitting on a shelf
> unused at AfriNIC or  Nobody is trying to hold AfriNIC at ransom. We have a
> legitimate disagreement about how the resources should be used. I?m not
> even a direct recipient of AfriNIC resources and most of the deployed
> number resources my company uses in Africa come from other RIRs. I don?t
> actually have a dog in this fight. I have nothing to gain and nothing to
> lose personally or professionally by this policy. My participation in the
> process is strictly based in my desire to see us do what is best for the
> AfriNIC constituency and for the internet as a whole.
>
> > No one who cares about Africa's interests should accept that.
>
> This is where the rhetoric from the proposal supporters starts to again
> border on ad hominem. Attempting to characterize those of us that oppose
> this policy (and other policies we believe are destructive rather than
> helpful to the internet) as:
>
>         1.      Trying to hold the community ransom
>         2.      Acting in bad faith
>         3.      Not caring about Africa?s interest
>
> Really don?t do anything to advance your position or the proposal. They
> only serve to infuriate and increase the emotion in what should be more a
> discussion of facts and a collegial difference of opinions about those
> facts.
>
> Owen
>
> >
> > Boubakar
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Andrew Alston <
> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> wrote:
> > As you say Noah - agreeing to disagree is ok and normal - so why can we
> not do that in the case of this proposal - there are a large segment of the
> community who disagree with it - and if we agreed to disagree - we go back
> to the status quo and there is no consensus - instead it seems we are being
> ?forced to agree? - but for all the reasons stated and reiterated and never
> responded to - we will not be forced into agreement on this policy - we
> disagree with it - let?s agree to disagree and move on with life - and the
> status quo (the current soft landing)
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > _____________________________
> > From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [rpd] Softlanding-Bis decision appeal
> > To: Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz <mailto:geier at geier.ne.tz>>
> > Cc: rpd List <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 Jan 2018 16:00, "Frank Habicht" <geier at geier.ne.tz <mailto:
> geier at geier.ne.tz>> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 1/3/2018 3:45 PM, Noah wrote:
> > > Hi Frank,
> > >
> > > I believe your points raised above were addressed and repeated many
> > > times and archives are there, but just to retariate that;
> > >
> > > 1. The global community accepted in 2009 a softlanding policy which
> > > granted AFRINIC just like other regions this last /8.
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > 2. AFRINIC would not have had that last /8 if the  normal allocation
> > > rules had continued to the end on IANA pool (need based and 1st come,
> > > 1st serve)
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > 3. The last /8 which is a subject of the current softlanding policy and
> > > all the proposals we've seen to amend it was meant for specific
> > > purposes. Please
> > > read  https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-
> afpub-2009-v4-001 <https://www.afrinic.net/en/
> library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001>
> > > <https://www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/current/135-
> afpub-2009-v4-001 <https://www.afrinic.net/en/
> library/policies/current/135-afpub-2009-v4-001>>
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > 4. Nobody, not even AFRINIC is locking useful numbering resources as
> > > allocations will continue as usual, folks are encouraged to adopt IPv6
> > > and provision is made for resource members to facilitate the
> transition.
> >
> > As per the softlanding policy already in place.
> > And the need to change to more stringent criteria ... ?
> > ... is in my opinion not something we have a consensus about.
> >
> > Ok
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe if you say there is a consensus and I say there is no
> > consensus, then the conclusion is that there is no consensus between us,
> > or even in the larger group.
> >
> > IMHO, the co-chairs are best placed to determine consensus vs no
> consensus.
> >
> >
> > Would you agree to these statements?
> >
> > If its just between me and you... we can agree to disagree and that is
> normal.
> >
> > Noah
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
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> End of RPD Digest, Vol 136, Issue 10
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