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[rpd] FW: Opposition to the changes in the AfriNIC Soft Landing Policy

Christian Ahiauzu christian.ahiauzu at
Wed Dec 6 14:34:07 UTC 2017

Hi Mark,

These is an except from Andrews mail on the 1st of Dec 2017:

"Hi All,

Considering the decision to take the soft-landing bis policy into last call
yesterday – the following individuals wish to state that we are officially
appealing the decision by the co-chairs in this regard:

Ben Maddison

Andrew Alston

Mark Elkins

Christopher Mwangi

Over the last 2 years there have been sustained and unaddressed objections
to this policy.  There have been multiple requests by this community to
withdraw this policy.  There was a statement by the authors in Mauritius
that the policy would be withdrawn that was reneged.  The list archives
clearly show that there was – and remains opposition to this policy.  The
rules of the PDP are clear – consensus is not based on what is said at the
floor of the meeting alone, but is derived from the sum total of comments
and objections both on the floor and the lists – and includes any
objections that are sustained and unaddressed..."

So, that doesn't sound to me like trying to appeal. That sounds like
commencing an appeal process. I stand to be corrected based on this mail.



On Dec 6, 2017 3:19 PM, "Mark Elkins" <mje at> wrote:

> For the Record - I am against this Soft Landing Proposal.
> Having said that,
> The way that I understand the policy proposal system to work is: (and I've
> done a few myself, some passed, some didn't)
> 1) Some one or group of people make a policy proposal. They send it to the
> PDP Co-Chairs and get a proper reference No for it and its posted to the
> PDP Mailing list.
> 2) The Policy is discussed on the list and the policy is (if necessary)
> refined. People indicate whether they support the policy or not and suggest
> changes if appropriate. *I believe this is where the bulk of work should
> happen.* This is usually the case in other regions.
> 3) At the next AFRINIC meeting (assuming that the policy has been in
> circulation long enough - something like four weeks) - the policy is
> further presented to the community members who are there. More exchange of
> ideas can happen here - but it should be understood that only a fraction of
> the PDP mailing list participants will be in the room. At the end of the
> discussion period the PDP Co-Chairs try and gauge consensus (actually -
> this should be an ongoing thing, bringing into account what happened on the
> mailing lists before the meeting as well as in the discussion period in the
> room). If they feel that a rough consensus has been reached - they move the
> policy to "Last Call". If not - the policy reverts to the mailing list.
> 4) Once Policy is in Last Call - as long as there are no substantial
> objections - the policy will be sent to the Board for ratification. This is
> usually a "Rubber Stamp" affair - unless there is something harmful in the
> policy towards the Company.
> 5) If there are no updates to the policy in about a year(?) - the policy
> is withdrawn. The authors can also withdraw at any time.
> That's the generalisation of the current process.
> The appeal process is what I understand can be brought about if a policy
> passes Last Call yet still has very unhappy people. I'd say that Andrew is
> getting ready for an appeal - because the appeal process is new - never
> been used - so is getting his ducks in a row. Right now - I sense that
> enough people are objecting to this policy that it won't get past Last
> Call, thus the Appeal Process will not be tested.
> We've seen this before, Sunday (our esteemed Chair Person) and one other
> proposed a policy for universities - so they could get IPv4 address space
> easier. Before the meeting - this had very positive support. At the meeting
> (in Lusaka, Zambia) it passed to last call - but got shot down by (as I
> remember) a small but vocal handful of people. I still think this was a
> dumb thing to happen - but anyway.
> I think also at AFRINIC that we have created a culture that if this policy
> is proposed by X - then it must be bad. That is a very unhealthy culture
> and, to coin a phrase, cutting your nose off to spite your face. Best
> example of this is the "Inward bound international transfer" policy.
> On 06/12/2017 11:07, Christian Ahiauzu wrote:
> Hi all,
> In fact, I have been wondering what the last call period is for. Please
> put me on the right lane. Is the last call period not meant to check if
> there are still any objections to the policy proposal under discuss? If my
> postulation is true, then it means if sustained objections are found at
> this point, then the policy will likely not be sent for ratification by the
> board.
> If all the above be the case, then was there actually any need for
> invoking an appeal process at this point? Why didn't we just get further
> objections to the policy proposed and discuss way forward. I am really lost
> here and need clarification especially from Andrew who initiated the Appeal
> process.
> BR
> Christian.
> On Dec 6, 2017 8:17 AM, "Alan Levin" <alan at> wrote:
>> Oops sorry I wasn't finished..
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Alan Levin <alan at>
>> wrote:
>>> I am surprised that we have not heard from these "Chairs", in fact I had
>>> to look up who the chairs actually are...
>>> I believe that this page shows:
>>> community/policy-development/pdwg
>>> 1. Dewole Ajao
>> 2. Sami Salih
>> Gentlemen, we clearly require your leadership here.
>> Whilst I see the Board has been acquiring legal assistance to deal with
>> their own group, we really don't want to get to that level here please.
>> Dewole, Sami - you do not have sufficient support for this policy, please
>> end this discussion and start a new one!
>> Kind thanks
>> Alan
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> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
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