<p dir="ltr">Hi Mark,</p>
<p dir="ltr">These is an except from Andrews mail on the 1st of Dec 2017:</p>
<p dir="ltr">"Hi All,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Considering the decision to take the soft-landing bis policy into last call yesterday – the following individuals wish to state that we are officially appealing the decision by the co-chairs in this regard:</p>
<p dir="ltr"> <br>
Ben Maddison</p>
<p dir="ltr">Andrew Alston</p>
<p dir="ltr">Mark Elkins</p>
<p dir="ltr">Christopher Mwangi</p>
<p dir="ltr"> <br>
Over the last 2 years there have been sustained and unaddressed objections to this policy. There have been multiple requests by this community to withdraw this policy. There was a statement by the authors in Mauritius that the policy would be withdrawn that was reneged. The list archives clearly show that there was – and remains opposition to this policy. The rules of the PDP are clear – consensus is not based on what is said at the floor of the meeting alone, but is derived from the sum total of comments and objections both on the floor and the lists – and includes any objections that are sustained and unaddressed..."</p>
<p dir="ltr">So, that doesn't sound to me like trying to appeal. That sounds like commencing an appeal process. I stand to be corrected based on this mail.</p>
<p dir="ltr">BR.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Christian.</p>
<p dir="ltr"> </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 6, 2017 3:19 PM, "Mark Elkins" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>For the Record - I am against this Soft Landing Proposal. <br>
</p>
<p>Having said that,</p>
<p>The way that I understand the policy proposal system to work is:
(and I've done a few myself, some passed, some didn't)<br>
</p>
<p>1) Some one or group of people make a policy proposal. They send
it to the PDP Co-Chairs and get a proper reference No for it and
its posted to the PDP Mailing list.</p>
<p>2) The Policy is discussed on the list and the policy is (if
necessary) refined. People indicate whether they support the
policy or not and suggest changes if appropriate.<b> </b><b><font size="+1">I believe this is where the bulk of work should
happen.</font></b> This is usually the case in other regions.</p>
<p>3) At the next AFRINIC meeting (assuming that the policy has been
in circulation long enough - something like four weeks) - the
policy is further presented to the community members who are
there. More exchange of ideas can happen here - but it should be
understood that only a fraction of the PDP mailing list
participants will be in the room. At the end of the discussion
period the PDP Co-Chairs try and gauge consensus (actually - this
should be an ongoing thing, bringing into account what happened on
the mailing lists before the meeting as well as in the discussion
period in the room). If they feel that a rough consensus has been
reached - they move the policy to "Last Call". If not - the policy
reverts to the mailing list.</p>
<p>4) Once Policy is in Last Call - as long as there are no
substantial objections - the policy will be sent to the Board for
ratification. This is usually a "Rubber Stamp" affair - unless
there is something harmful in the policy towards the Company.</p>
<p>5) If there are no updates to the policy in about a year(?) - the
policy is withdrawn. The authors can also withdraw at any time.</p>
<p>That's the generalisation of the current process.</p>
<p>The appeal process is what I understand can be brought about if a
policy passes Last Call yet still has very unhappy people. I'd say
that Andrew is getting ready for an appeal - because the appeal
process is new - never been used - so is getting his ducks in a
row. Right now - I sense that enough people are objecting to this
policy that it won't get past Last Call, thus the Appeal Process
will not be tested.<br>
</p>
We've seen this before, Sunday (our esteemed Chair Person) and one
other proposed a policy for universities - so they could get IPv4
address space easier. Before the meeting - this had very positive
support. At the meeting (in Lusaka, Zambia) it passed to last call -
but got shot down by (as I remember) a small but vocal handful of
people. I still think this was a dumb thing to happen - but anyway.<br>
<br>
I think also at AFRINIC that we have created a culture that if this
policy is proposed by X - then it must be bad. That is a very
unhealthy culture and, to coin a phrase, cutting your nose off to
spite your face. Best example of this is the "Inward bound
international transfer" policy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-5442164500151608770moz-cite-prefix">On 06/12/2017 11:07, Christian Ahiauzu
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Hi all,</p>
<p dir="ltr">In fact, I have been wondering what the last call
period is for. Please put me on the right lane. Is the last call
period not meant to check if there are still any objections to
the policy proposal under discuss? If my postulation is true,
then it means if sustained objections are found at this point,
then the policy will likely not be sent for ratification by the
board. </p>
<p dir="ltr">If all the above be the case, then was there actually
any need for invoking an appeal process at this point? Why
didn't we just get further objections to the policy proposed
and discuss way forward. I am really lost here and need
clarification especially from Andrew who initiated the Appeal
process.</p>
<p dir="ltr">BR<br>
Christian.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 6, 2017 8:17 AM, "Alan Levin" <<a href="mailto:alan@futureperfect.co.za" target="_blank">alan@futureperfect.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Oops sorry I wasn't finished..
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:08 AM,
Alan Levin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan@futureperfect.co.za" target="_blank">alan@futureperfect.co.za</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="m_-5442164500151608770m_-8174643872596108055gmail-">
<div>I am surprised that we have not heard
from these "Chairs", in fact I had to look
up who the chairs actually are...<br>
</div>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe that this page shows: <a href="https://afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/pdwg" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/en/<wbr>community/policy-development/p<wbr>dwg</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
1. Dewole Ajao</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>2. Sami Salih<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Gentlemen, we clearly require your leadership
here. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Whilst I see the Board has been acquiring legal
assistance to deal with their own group, we really
don't want to get to that level here please. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dewole, Sami - you do not have sufficient support
for this policy, please end this discussion and start
a new one!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alan</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre class="m_-5442164500151608770moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
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