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[rpd] Another opposition

Mark Elkins mje at
Wed Dec 6 13:34:11 UTC 2017

in-line comments a screen or so down.

On 06/12/2017 02:27, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 16:08 , Kangamutima zabika Christophe
>> <funga.roho at <mailto:funga.roho at>> wrote:
>> Owen,
>> A deux reprises, le CEO d'afrinic a fait valoir que la procédure
>> prise par les pétitionnaires était à l'encontre des procédures
>> régissant l'élaboration des politiques de gestion des ressources
>> numériques d'afrinic. Mais pourquoi continuer à discuter sur le fond
>> quand la forme est déjà tronquée.
>> avant d'en venir aux fonds de la proposition, il devait d'abord
>> veiller à ce que la forme ait été correct. relisez mes précédentes
>> interventions, et vous comprendrez mon opinion. Ce n'est pas une
>> pétition de quelques employés des fournisseurs d'accès qui peuvent
>> changer des régles basiques légistique. En continuant sur cette voie,
>> il ne fait que narguer davantage la communauté.
>> Si vraiment, il tenait à défendre les intêrêts de l'idustrie
>> d'internet comme il le prétend il n'avait qu'à intervenir
>> publiquement lors de la réunion Afrinic de Lagos où posté un avis
>> contraire sur la liste de diffusion en ce moment. Un groupe de 2 à 10
>> personnes ne peuvent prendre les ressources de tout un continent en
>> otage parcequ'ils représentent soit disant les opérteurs dits actifs.
>> J'assume tous mes propos et je réaffirme ma désapprobation totale
>> contre cette démarche cavalière prise par ces pétitionnaires.
>> Owen,
>> On two occasions, the CEO of afrinic argued that the procedure taken
>> by the petitioners was against the procedures governing the
>> development of afrinic's digital resource management policies. But
>> why continue to discuss on the merits when the form is already truncated.
> Nope… On two occasions, he mentioned that the extra process being
> undertaken was, in his opinion, an unnecessary extra effort.
>> before coming to the funds of the proposal, he had first to ensure
>> that the form was correct. reread my previous interventions, and you
>> will understand my opinion.
> His form is perfectly valid within the PDP.
>> This is not a petition from a few employees of ISPs who can change
>> basic rules of law. By continuing on this path, he is just taunting
>> the community.

The people using Andrew to present their objections are often the CEO of
some quite large holders of AFRINIC resource space. These are the people
that usually get their technical people to do the mundane task of
talking on Mailing lists. They would probably prefer the more formal
approach - but at the end of the day - their message is on the PDP
mailing list.

I would be careful about whom you call "a few employees of ISPs".

Andrew also works for one of the largest ISP's in Africa. They swallow
country Telco's for breakfast (well - they have bought at least two).

> You are entitled to your opinion, but I don’t think anyone is
> attempting to change basic rules of law here. Andrew has chosen to be
> even more formal than is required in forwarding signed letters of
> protest to the decision taken by the co-chairs. There is nothing in
> the PDP which proscribes this, but also nothing which requires it.
>> If he really wanted to defend the interests of the internet industry
>> as he claims he only had to intervene publicly at the Afrinic meeting
>> in Lagos where posted a contrary opinion on the mailing list at this
>> time.
> Actually, he and I have both posted several oppositions to this
> proposal on the mailing list prior to the Lagos meeting, so clearly
> that was not sufficient as you claim above.
>> A group of 2 to 10 people can not take the resources of a whole
>> continent hostage because they represent so-called active operators.
>> I accept all my remarks and reaffirm my total disapproval of this
>> cavalier step taken by these petitioners.
> You are free to disapprove, but you still have made no argument in
> favor of the merits of the proposal, nor has anyone offered any
> argument to counter the claims of harm put up by the people who have
> spoken in opposition (a lot more than 10 by my count).
> I understand your position and I respect it, even though I cannot
> agree with you. Nonetheless, I have not resorted to calling you names
> or accusing you of conduct which you are not guilty of. You, on the
> other hand have chosen to repeatedly do so with Andrew and I believe
> that is inappropriate.
> Owen
>> 06.12.2017, 00:46, "Owen DeLong" <owen at
>> <mailto:owen at>>:
>>> This is an ad hominem attack which has no place on this list or in
>>> the policy process.
>>> While I respect your right to disagree with Andrew (and me and
>>> anyone else), I urge you to
>>> disagree on the merits of the proposal and not with personal attacks.
>>> While you may legitimately believe that locking up resources such
>>> that they can effectively never be
>>> used is somehow in the best interests of the community, and that is
>>> your right, I will point out that
>>> neither Andrew nor I have taken to calling you names or making
>>> accusations about your motivations
>>> on the subject.
>>> I assure you that all of the opinions I have expressed are based on
>>> what I believe to be the best
>>> interests of the larger community and not on any personal gain nor
>>> on any gain for any of the
>>> organizations that I work with/for.
>>> I notice that you haven’t provided any concrete basis on which your
>>> position is built, nor any
>>> fact-based counter-argument to the objections raised to this proposal.
>>> Is ad hominem really all that you have on which to base your support
>>> for this proposal?
>>> Owen
>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 15:23 , Kangamutima zabika Christophe
>>>> <funga.roho at <mailto:funga.roho at>> wrote:
>>>> MOi je pense que pour mon frère andrew, que ce n'est pas avec un
>>>> lobbying nauséabond fondé sur des réclamations des membres hors la
>>>> loi que vous obtiendrez le poste que vous convoitez lors de la
>>>> prochaine élection. Vous y gagnerez beaucoup en vous faisant petit
>>>> de peur d'essuyer un nouvel échec rétentissant comme Nairobi. Ceuxi
>>>> qui pensent que cette politique n'est pas conforme à leur vision de
>>>> la gestion des adresse IP en Afrique ils n'ont qu'à passer par la
>>>> voie légitime.
>>>> Ces pseudo- opérateurs opérant à la manière des fonds vautours, les
>>>> vrais africains n'en veulent pas!!!!!.
>>>> Quel que soit la mobilisation des braconniers à l'ère numérique
>>>> notre packages des ressources protégé le restera.
>>>> Nous réaffirmons avec la plus grande énergie notre soutien
>>>> indéfectible à cette proposition.
>>>> And I think for my brother Andrew, that it's not with nauseating
>>>> lobbying based on outlaw claims that you'll get the job you want in
>>>> the next election. You will gain a lot by making yourself small for
>>>> fear of wiping out another resounding failure like Nairobi. Those
>>>> who think that this policy is not consistent with their vision of
>>>> IP address management in Africa they have to go through the
>>>> legitimate way.
>>>> These pseudo-operators operating like vulture funds, true Africans
>>>> do not want it !!!!!
>>>> Whatever the mobilization of poachers in the digital age our
>>>> protected resource package will remain so.
>>>> We reiterate with the utmost energy our unwavering support for this
>>>> proposal.
>>>> 05.12.2017, 20:30, "Andrew Alston" <andrew.alston at
>>>> <mailto:andrew.alston at>>:
>>>>> As per attached
>>>>> ,
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RPD mailing list
>>>>> RPD at <mailto:RPD at>
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>>>> Direction des Systèmes et Technologies de l'Information
>>>> Direction Générale des Douanes et
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>>>> RPD mailing list
>>>> RPD at <mailto:RPD at>
>> -- 
>> Contrôleur des douanes
>> Direction des Systèmes et Technologies de l'Information
>> Direction Générale des Douanes et
>> Accises
>> DRC
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Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:

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