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<p>in-line comments a screen or so down.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/12/2017 02:27, Owen DeLong wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:C89796BC-5455-4564-8748-EE492A4EAFA0@delong.com">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Dec 5, 2017, at 16:08 , Kangamutima zabika
Christophe <<a href="mailto:funga.roho@yandex.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">funga.roho@yandex.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Owen,</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">A deux reprises, le CEO d'afrinic a fait
valoir que la procédure prise par les pétitionnaires
était à l'encontre des procédures régissant
l'élaboration des politiques de gestion des ressources
numériques d'afrinic. Mais pourquoi continuer à discuter
sur le fond quand la forme est déjà tronquée.</div>
<div class="">avant d'en venir aux fonds de la
proposition, il devait d'abord veiller à ce que la forme
ait été correct. relisez mes précédentes interventions,
et vous comprendrez mon opinion. Ce n'est pas une
pétition de quelques employés des fournisseurs d'accès
qui peuvent changer des régles basiques légistique. En
continuant sur cette voie, il ne fait que narguer
davantage la communauté.</div>
<div class="">Si vraiment, il tenait à défendre les
intêrêts de l'idustrie d'internet comme il le prétend il
n'avait qu'à intervenir publiquement lors de la réunion
Afrinic de Lagos où posté un avis contraire sur la liste
de diffusion en ce moment. Un groupe de 2 à 10 personnes
ne peuvent prendre les ressources de tout un continent
en otage parcequ'ils représentent soit disant les
opérteurs dits actifs.</div>
<div class="">J'assume tous mes propos et je réaffirme ma
désapprobation totale contre cette démarche cavalière
prise par ces pétitionnaires.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div style="width:100%;" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span class="" lang="en"><span
title="Owen,
" class="">Owen,</span><br class="">
<br class="">
<span title="A deux reprises, le CEO d'afrinic a
fait valoir que la procédure prise par les
pétitionnaires était à l'encontre des
procédures régissant l'élaboration des
politiques de gestion des ressources
numériques d'afrinic." class="">On two
occasions, the CEO of afrinic argued that the
procedure taken by the petitioners was against
the procedures governing the development of
afrinic's digital resource management
policies. </span><span title="Mais pourquoi
continuer à discuter sur le fond quand la
forme est déjà tronquée.
" class="">But why continue to discuss on the
merits when the form is already truncated.</span><br
class="">
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Nope… On two occasions, he mentioned that the extra process
being undertaken was, in his opinion, an unnecessary extra
effort.</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span class="" lang="en"><span
title="avant d'en venir aux fonds de la
proposition, il devait d'abord veiller à ce
que la forme ait été correct." class="">before
coming to the funds of the proposal, he had
first to ensure that the form was correct. </span><span
title="relisez mes précédentes interventions,
et vous comprendrez mon opinion." class="">reread
my previous interventions, and you will
understand my opinion.</span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
His form is perfectly valid within the PDP.</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span class="" lang="en"><span
title="relisez mes précédentes interventions,
et vous comprendrez mon opinion." class=""> </span><span
title="Ce n'est pas une pétition de quelques
employés des fournisseurs d'accès qui peuvent
changer des régles basiques légistique."
class="">This is not a petition from a few
employees of ISPs who can change basic rules
of law. </span><span title="En continuant sur
cette voie, il ne fait que narguer davantage
la communauté.
" class="">By continuing on this path, he is
just taunting the community.</span><br
class="">
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
The people using Andrew to present their objections are often the
CEO of some quite large holders of AFRINIC resource space. These are
the people that usually get their technical people to do the mundane
task of talking on Mailing lists. They would probably prefer the
more formal approach - but at the end of the day - their message is
on the PDP mailing list.<br>
<br>
I would be careful about whom you call "<span class="" lang="en"><span
title="Ce n'est pas une pétition de quelques employés des
fournisseurs d'accès qui peuvent changer des régles basiques
légistique." class="">a few employees of ISPs".<br>
<br>
Andrew also works for one of the largest ISP's in Africa. They
swallow country Telco's for breakfast (well - they have bought
at least two).<br>
<br>
</span></span>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:C89796BC-5455-4564-8748-EE492A4EAFA0@delong.com">
<div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
You are entitled to your opinion, but I don’t think anyone is
attempting to change basic rules of law here. Andrew has chosen
to be even more formal than is required in forwarding signed
letters of protest to the decision taken by the co-chairs. There
is nothing in the PDP which proscribes this, but also nothing
which requires it.</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span class="" lang="en"><span
title="Si vraiment, il tenait à défendre les
intêrêts de l'idustrie d'internet comme il le
prétend il n'avait qu'à intervenir
publiquement lors de la réunion Afrinic de
Lagos où posté un avis contraire sur la liste
de diffusion en ce moment." class="">If he
really wanted to defend the interests of the
internet industry as he claims he only had to
intervene publicly at the Afrinic meeting in
Lagos where posted a contrary opinion on the
mailing list at this time.</span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Actually, he and I have both posted several oppositions to this
proposal on the mailing list prior to the Lagos meeting, so
clearly that was not sufficient as you claim above.</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span class="" lang="en"><span
title="Si vraiment, il tenait à défendre les
intêrêts de l'idustrie d'internet comme il le
prétend il n'avait qu'à intervenir
publiquement lors de la réunion Afrinic de
Lagos où posté un avis contraire sur la liste
de diffusion en ce moment." class=""> </span><span
title="Un groupe de 2 à 10 personnes ne
peuvent prendre les ressources de tout un
continent en otage parcequ'ils représentent
soit disant les opérteurs dits actifs.
" class="">A group of 2 to 10 people can not
take the resources of a whole continent
hostage because they represent so-called
active operators.</span><br class="">
<span title="J'assume tous mes propos et je
réaffirme ma désapprobation totale contre
cette démarche cavalière prise par ces
pétitionnaires." class="">I accept all my
remarks and reaffirm my total disapproval of
this cavalier step taken by these petitioners.</span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
You are free to disapprove, but you still have made no argument
in favor of the merits of the proposal, nor has anyone offered
any argument to counter the claims of harm put up by the people
who have spoken in opposition (a lot more than 10 by my count).</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>I understand your position and I respect it, even though I
cannot agree with you. Nonetheless, I have not resorted to
calling you names or accusing you of conduct which you are not
guilty of. You, on the other hand have chosen to repeatedly do
so with Andrew and I believe that is inappropriate.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Owen</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">06.12.2017, 00:46, "Owen DeLong" <<a
href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">owen@delong.com</a>>:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">This is an ad hominem attack which has no
place on this list or in the policy process.
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">While I respect your right to disagree
with Andrew (and me and anyone else), I urge you to</div>
<div class="">disagree on the merits of the proposal and
not with personal attacks.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">While you may legitimately believe that
locking up resources such that they can effectively
never be</div>
<div class="">used is somehow in the best interests of
the community, and that is your right, I will point
out that</div>
<div class="">neither Andrew nor I have taken to calling
you names or making accusations about your motivations</div>
<div class="">on the subject.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">I assure you that all of the opinions I
have expressed are based on what I believe to be the
best</div>
<div class="">interests of the larger community and not
on any personal gain nor on any gain for any of the</div>
<div class="">organizations that I work with/for.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">I notice that you haven’t provided any
concrete basis on which your position is built, nor
any</div>
<div class="">fact-based counter-argument to the
objections raised to this proposal.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Is ad hominem really all that you have on
which to base your support for this proposal?</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Dec 5, 2017, at 15:23 ,
Kangamutima zabika Christophe <<a
href="mailto:funga.roho@yandex.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">funga.roho@yandex.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">MOi je pense que pour mon frère
andrew, que ce n'est pas avec un lobbying
nauséabond fondé sur des réclamations des
membres hors la loi que vous obtiendrez le
poste que vous convoitez lors de la
prochaine élection. Vous y gagnerez beaucoup
en vous faisant petit de peur d'essuyer un
nouvel échec rétentissant comme Nairobi.
Ceuxi qui pensent que cette politique n'est
pas conforme à leur vision de la gestion des
adresse IP en Afrique ils n'ont qu'à passer
par la voie légitime.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Ces pseudo- opérateurs opérant à
la manière des fonds vautours, les vrais
africains n'en veulent pas!!!!!.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Quel que soit la mobilisation
des braconniers à l'ère numérique notre
packages des ressources protégé le restera.</div>
<div class="">Nous réaffirmons avec la plus
grande énergie notre soutien indéfectible à
cette proposition.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="en"><span
class="">And I think for my brother
Andrew, that it's not with nauseating
lobbying based on outlaw claims that
you'll get the job you want in the next
election.</span> <span class="">You
will gain a lot by making yourself small
for fear of wiping out another
resounding failure like Nairobi.</span>
<span class="">Those who think that this
policy is not consistent with their
vision of IP address management in
Africa they have to go through the
legitimate way.</span><br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="">These pseudo-operators
operating like vulture funds, true
Africans do not want it !!!!!</span><br
class="">
<br class="">
<span class="">Whatever the mobilization
of poachers in the digital age our
protected resource package will remain
so.</span></span></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><span class="" lang="en"><span
class="">We reiterate with the utmost
energy our unwavering support for this
proposal.</span></span></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">05.12.2017, 20:30, "Andrew Alston"
<<a
href="mailto:andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="direction:ltr;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="direction:ltr;" class="">As
per attached</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
,
<p class="">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">-- </div>
<div class="">KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA</div>
<div class="">Contrôleur des douanes</div>
<div class="">Direction des Systèmes et
Technologies de l'Information</div>
<div class="">Direction Générale des Douanes et</div>
<div class="">Accises</div>
<div class="">DRC</div>
<div class=""> </div>
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">-- </div>
<div class="">KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA</div>
<div class="">Contrôleur des douanes</div>
<div class="">Direction des Systèmes et Technologies de
l'Information</div>
<div class="">Direction Générale des Douanes et</div>
<div class="">Accises</div>
<div class="">DRC</div>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ftth.posix.co.za">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a>
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