[rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee

Wed Jul 12 15:05:19 UTC 2017

While I agree – we could go down the road of changing the CPM – I do not believe that is a necessary step (by the way the method to change the CPM Is through policy proposal).

I do not believe it is necessary because in order to affect that change – we would once again have to go back to the floor of meetings – and with the current (rather sad) divides in this community, I do not believe that getting consensus in short order on this is necessarily viable.

My personal reading of the current CPM says that it is adequate anyway – unless the board can guarantee that a committee can be appointed at instant notice – they have no other way outside of a standing appeal committee to deliver on the mandate to allow a community member to appeal an RPD decision *at any point* within the 2 week period – up to – and including – 1 minute before that 2 weeks expire.

It is simply logic that states that if you are mandated to do something – and you have no other way to deliver on what your mandate is other than a particular course of action – then that course of action is the one that must be followed.  So, unless the board can commit to instant – and I mean instant – appointment of an adhoc committee – then a standing committee is the only option available.

Andrew

From: Arsène Tungali [mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com]
Sent: 12 July 2017 17:57
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC RPD MList. <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee

This is an interesting conversation here.
Why? Because if I think things through and decide on the last day of that period that I have intent to file - and then inform the board - the committee will not be constituted in time for the appeal to reach them in the stipulated time period - where as had I sent directly to a standing committee it would have.
I do agree with Andrew here.

So - is the board prepared to commit to appointing a committee within 6 hours notice? Anything else would prejudice the rights as stipulated in the CPM
I do agree with this as well. Apologize again if i missed something, can anyone please explain to me why the Board cannot nominate a standing committee? A committee whith whom community members would file their complaints directly, bearing in mind that the Board might not (in some circumstances) have enough time to do it, should the request to form the committee comes in close to the expiration of the 2 weeks time? If it is because that's what the CPM say, can't we change them?
Alan said the following later on:
No, the policy process does not say that the Board must appoint the committee long in advance to be on standby in case there’s an appeal.  The policy process is silent about when the committee gets appointed.

Maybe it is the time to change it now that someone raised the issue and presented some good motivations about it? How can we go about this?

------------------------
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2017-07-12 9:45 GMT+02:00 Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>:
Oh and sorry - another point - the appeal process says I have to file with the committee within 2 weeks of the alleged incident - if I have to submit via the board first - this changes the stipulated time frames and makes them much shorter.

Why? Because if I think things through and decide on the last day of that period that I have intent to file - and then inform the board - the committee will not be constituted in time for the appeal to reach them in the stipulated time period - where as had I sent directly to a standing committee it would have.

So - is the board prepared to commit to appointing a committee within 6 hours notice? Anything else would prejudice the rights as stipulated in the CPM

Andrew

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________________________________
From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:37:54 AM

To: Alan Barrett; AfriNIC RPD MList.
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee

Alan - further to this -

You said if I want it - ask for it - sorry to say this but that is simply not valid - the community asked for it - when they approved the current PDP - I should not have to ask for it - it should be there - and I take partial responsibility as an ex board member for missing this and not insisting on it during my time on the board - it was an oversight and I apologize to the community for that

Andrew

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________________________________
From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:28:42 AM
To: Alan Barrett; AfriNIC RPD MList.
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee

Alan - it is required - the CPM (not the bylaws) require it as the community agreed to that CPM.

The problem you have with complaints being diverted via the board is as follows:

A.) it is well established practice - that I fully support - that board members may partake in their personal capacity in PDP meetings and the PDP process
B.) it is established fact that at points staff - including yourself - have expressed opinions on certain aspects (see Mauritius) - again - I fully support that - but it creates conflict
C.) The CPM says appeals must be filed within 2 weeks - I believe the intention on this is to ensure that information is clear and retained - and the delays by having the board constitute adhoc committees could have a detrimental affect on the process
D.) the process says nothing about submitting the complaint to anyone other than the committee - that cannot be done without the committee existing
E.) do I believe there is a need for such a committee? 100% - if such a committee existed and I had known it - I would have already appealed the decision to pass the review policy to last call - on substantial grounds.

So yes - that committee is mandated by the CPM - yes it is necessary - yes I want the ability as promised in the CPM to file my appeals directly with the committee - yes I do not believe the board should have any part in said committee outside of appointing it - and certainly should not appoint themselves as gateway to the committee when the CPM in no way caters for such a scenario

Again I ask - if I am told to file with the appeal committee - how do I do that without it existing - am I forced to push said appeal through the board - in which case please show me the sections of the CPM and the bylaws that allow the board to insert itself into this process

Andrew

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________________________________
From: Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:10:15 AM
To: AfriNIC RPD MList.
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Board-Discuss] RPD appeal committee

> On 12 Jul 2017, at 10:50, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>
> Sorry Alan - but this is in direct conflict with what the CPM says, I quote:
>
>> if the disagreement cannot be resolved in this way, the person may file an appeal with an Appeal Committee appointed by the AFRINIC Board of Directors.
>
> It is impossible to file an appeal if there is no committee to file it with - and nowhere does this process give the board the right to decide when such a committee is necessary.
>
> Indeed as I have stated in my previous email - the board is conflicted as they have to ratify - and the right of community members to file appeals independent of the board must be respected - and that dictates that there be a sitting committee with whom to file said appeals

I don’t see the conflict that you claim. That sentence does not say when the committee needs to be appointed. My interpretation, shared by Afrinic’s legal advisor, is that the committee may be appointed at the time that it becomes necessary.

One possible process would be: a complainant informs the Baord of intent to file an appeal; the Board appoints an appeal committee; the complainant files an appeal with the appeal committee.

If you would like the appeal committee to be appointed even when there are no pending appeals, then I suggest that you ask for that, and give reasons. Please make it a discussion about whether or not a standing committee is a good idea, rather than whether or not the bylaws require it.

Alan Barrett

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