[rpd] Last Call for "AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-04 - Internet Number Resources Review by AFRINIC"

Wed Jul 12 14:08:35 UTC 2017

Hi Barry,

ARIN and RIPE NCC were referred to multiple times as to their policies and
procedure to justify actions or proposals made here, then the other RIRs
should be put in context yes, and their definitions for de-registration as
well.

Fraud if it happened needs to be investigated, AFRINIC already can do that.
But it is not the same as a review policy, and this proposal is about
de-registration of resources, hunting down and re-evaluating allocations
already issued to the LIRs.

It is a very dangerous path, very time consuming for the RIR and LIR which
eventually will anyways wield very little results with great headache for
all involved.

David Hilario

IP Manager

Larus Cloud Service Limited

p: +852 29888918  m: +359 89 764 1784
f: +852 29888068
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
w: laruscloudservice.net
e: d.hilario at laruscloudservice.net

On 12 July 2017 at 16:03, Boubakar Barry <boubakarbarry at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a problem here: people (at least some) seem to not read before
> rushing to they keyboard with the same rhetoric.
>
> Ornella wrote: "Last ressort at deregistering resources would only likely
> be in case of fraud as most members should be able to work with AfriNIC to
> redress issues (revealed by review).".
>
> We are not here to analyse definitions of fraud as per RIPE, ARIN or
> whoever. Fraud is fraud and we just need common sense to understand that.
> To be very specific: if one does get resources from AfriNIC not for
> deploying infrastructure in the region as indicated at the time of the
> request but for speculative reasons, what would you call it?
>
> Boubakar
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 11:16 AM, David Hilario <
> d.hilario at laruscloudservice.net> wrote:
>
>> Ornella,
>>
>> This is not at all what is defined as fraud over there.
>>
>> Fraudulent company registration papers, forged documents to do merger and
>> acquisition are what is fraud.
>>
>> And your definition of fraud here, would really be a far stretch.
>>
>> I also do not believe IN a policy to rely entirely on the RSA.
>>
>>
>> Re-evaluation of resource is what this proposal here at AFRINIC is
>> offering which is not offered at the other RIRs.
>>
>> Now, I already asked from Seacom, but this is valid for any LIR on this
>> list.
>>
>> Who has not yet filled up allocations issued more than two years ago?
>>
>> Any of you is in policy violation, as those resources should had been
>> used up by now, any unused space from your allocations however small that
>> is, should then be returned, there is no 3 months period that will fix that.
>>
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2017 7:01 PM, "Ornella GANKPA" <honest1989 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David
>>>
>>> That is exactly the point. RIPE NCC and ARIN do deregister if there is
>>> fraud. Wilful breach of the RSA *is* fraud. The policy makes that
>>> clear. Last ressort at deregistering resources would only likely be in case
>>> of fraud as most members should be able to work with AfriNIC to redress
>>> issues (revealed by review).
>>>
>>> The fact that the process for fraud is not in their review policies does
>>> not mean they do not deregister. Neither does it mean that the policy
>>> formats have to be the same.
>>>
>>> Honest Ornella GANKPA
>>>
>>> Le 12/07/2017 à 11:04, David Hilario a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi Noah,
>>>
>>> Just to make it clear in regards to the repeated comments trying to
>>> justify this proposal by saying that RIPE NCC or ARIN are having a
>>> similar policy and practice.
>>>
>>> The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking:
>>> https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQ?list=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5
>>>
>>> At around 08:27:50 Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC
>>> He goes on to explain that their reviews are called "ARC", and it is
>>> to keep in touch and keep data up to data, registry data, that is the
>>> contact details and so on.
>>> Investigation, that is part of the "fraud".
>>>
>>> 08:29:50 Leslie from ARIN.
>>> Explains the scope of their policy, they only Audit in Fraud cases
>>> only deregister in case of fraud.
>>>
>>> Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and
>>> questioning how the LIRs are currently using their resources.
>>> So, this was debunked at an AFRINIC meeting, I don't understand how it
>>> is still being spread like this.
>>>
>>> It is being ignored or forgotten by the people here on this list, but
>>> already stated publicly by RIRs registration services managers
>>> directly that it isn't within the scope of what they do.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to say AFRINIC can do it like RIPE NCC, simply copy the
>>> ARC procedure:https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-management/assisted-registry-check
>>>
>>> Non-intrusive review of LIRs information and contacts, no
>>> re-evaluation of their ressources, no discrimination and categories,
>>> ALL LIRs.
>>>
>>> No one can really have any objections to that review system, other
>>> than the staff costs for it, but if done as a side project it should
>>> not be a problem to review 1500+ LIRs within a 2 to 3 years time.
>>>
>>> David Hilario
>>>
>>> IP Manager
>>>
>>> Larus Cloud Service Limited
>>>
>>> p: +852 29888918 <+852%202988%208918>  m: +359 89 764 1784 <+359%2089%20764%201784>
>>> f: +852 29888068 <+852%202988%208068>
>>> a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
>>> w: laruscloudservice.net
>>> e: d.hilario at laruscloudservice.net
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12 July 2017 at 11:30, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12 Jul 2017 9:47 a.m., "Bill Woodcock" <woody at pch.net> <woody at pch.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 18 Against:"chenghn at chinaccsi.com" <chenghn at chinaccsi.com> <chenghn at chinaccsi.com> <chenghn at chinaccsi.com>
>>> Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>> Bastein Li <bastienlee at qq.com> <bastienlee at qq.com>
>>> Christopher Mwangi <christopher.mwangi at liquidtelecom.com> <christopher.mwangi at liquidtelecom.com>
>>> David Hilario <d.hilario at laruscloudservice.net> <d.hilario at laruscloudservice.net>
>>> Derrick Harrison <derrick.harrison at sonictelecoms.co.za> <derrick.harrison at sonictelecoms.co.za>
>>> Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at gmail.com> <ondouglas at gmail.com>
>>> Kris Seeburn <seeburn.k at gmail.com> <seeburn.k at gmail.com>
>>> Lu Heng <h.lu at anytimechinese.com> <h.lu at anytimechinese.com>
>>> Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> <mje at posix.co.za>
>>> Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>>> McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> <dogwallah at gmail.com>
>>> Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com> <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>>> Nishal Goburdhan <nishal at controlfreak.co.za> <nishal at controlfreak.co.za>
>>> Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> <noah at neo.co.tz>
>>> S Moonesamy <sm+afrinic at elandsys.com> <sm+afrinic at elandsys.com>
>>> Saul Stein <saul at enetworks.co.za> <saul at enetworks.co.za>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Bill
>>>
>>> on the contrary, I actually support the policy just like other folks which
>>> is why it reached the last call. This policy would enable AFRINIC just like
>>> ARIN,  RIPE NCC and other RIR to effect compliance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, the next question might be whether this is a winner-take-all vote, or an
>>> assessment of whether a clear consensus exists.
>>>
>>>
>>> We continue to trust the co-chairs who have guided us to this stage.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Noah
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RPD mailing listRPD at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RPD mailing listRPD at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.avast.com/fr-fr/c-malware?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclients&utm_term=oa-2335-v2-c> Vérification
>>> des malwares
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>>> effectuée
>>>
>>
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>
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