<div dir="ltr"><br><div>Hi Barry,</div><div><br></div><div>ARIN and RIPE NCC were referred to multiple times as to their policies and procedure to justify actions or proposals made here, then the other RIRs should be put in context yes, and their definitions for de-registration as well.</div><div><br></div><div>Fraud if it happened needs to be investigated, AFRINIC already can do that. </div><div>But it is not the same as a review policy, and this proposal is about de-registration of resources, hunting down and re-evaluating allocations already issued to the LIRs.<br></div><div><br></div><div>It is a very dangerous path, very time consuming for the RIR and LIR which eventually will anyways wield very little results with great headache for all involved.</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">David Hilario<br><br>IP Manager<br><br>Larus Cloud Service Limited<br><br>p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784<br>f: +852 29888068<br>a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR<br>w: <a href="http://laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">laruscloudservice.net</a><br>e: <a href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net</a></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 July 2017 at 16:03, Boubakar Barry <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:boubakarbarry@gmail.com" target="_blank">boubakarbarry@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>I have a problem here: people (at least some) seem to not read before rushing to they keyboard with the same rhetoric.<br><br></div>Ornella wrote: "Last ressort at deregistering resources
would only likely be in case of fraud as most members should be
able to work with AfriNIC to redress issues (revealed by review).".<br><br></div>We are not here to analyse definitions of fraud as per RIPE, ARIN or whoever. Fraud is fraud and we just need common sense to understand that. To be very specific: if one does get resources from AfriNIC not for deploying infrastructure in the region as indicated at the time of the request but for speculative reasons, what would you call it?<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br></font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Boubakar</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 11:16 AM, David Hilario <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.n<wbr>et</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Ornella,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is not at all what is defined as fraud over there.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Fraudulent company registration papers, forged documents to do merger and acquisition are what is fraud.</span><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And your definition of fraud here, would really be a far stretch.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I also do not believe IN a policy to rely entirely on the RSA.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Re-evaluation of resource is what this proposal here at AFRINIC is offering which is not offered at the other RIRs.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Now, I already asked from Seacom, but this is valid for any LIR on this list.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Who has not yet filled up allocations issued more than two years ago?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Any of you is in policy violation, as those resources should had been used up by now, any unused space from your allocations however small that is, should then be returned, there is no 3 months period that will fix that.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><div class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537HOEnZb"><div class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Jul 12, 2017 7:01 PM, "Ornella GANKPA" <<a href="mailto:honest1989@gmail.com" target="_blank">honest1989@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi David<br>
<br>
That is exactly the point. RIPE NCC and ARIN do deregister if
there is fraud. Wilful breach of the RSA <b>is</b> fraud. The
policy makes that clear. Last ressort at deregistering resources
would only likely be in case of fraud as most members should be
able to work with AfriNIC to redress issues (revealed by review).<br>
<br>
The fact that the process for fraud is not in their review
policies does not mean they do not deregister. Neither does it
mean that the policy formats have to be the same.</p>
<pre class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-signature" cols="72">Honest Ornella GANKPA</pre>
<div class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-cite-prefix">Le 12/07/2017 à 11:04, David Hilario a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Hi Noah,
Just to make it clear in regards to the repeated comments trying to
justify this proposal by saying that RIPE NCC or ARIN are having a
similar policy and practice.
The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking:
<a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQ?list=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQ?l<wbr>ist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7<wbr>oqLDC9e5</a>
At around 08:27:50 Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC
He goes on to explain that their reviews are called "ARC", and it is
to keep in touch and keep data up to data, registry data, that is the
contact details and so on.
Investigation, that is part of the "fraud".
08:29:50 Leslie from ARIN.
Explains the scope of their policy, they only Audit in Fraud cases
only deregister in case of fraud.
Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and
questioning how the LIRs are currently using their resources.
So, this was debunked at an AFRINIC meeting, I don't understand how it
is still being spread like this.
It is being ignored or forgotten by the people here on this list, but
already stated publicly by RIRs registration services managers
directly that it isn't within the scope of what they do.
If you want to say AFRINIC can do it like RIPE NCC, simply copy the
ARC procedure:
<a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-management/assisted-registry-check" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/manage-ip<wbr>s-and-asns/resource-management<wbr>/assisted-registry-check</a>
Non-intrusive review of LIRs information and contacts, no
re-evaluation of their ressources, no discrimination and categories,
ALL LIRs.
No one can really have any objections to that review system, other
than the staff costs for it, but if done as a side project it should
not be a problem to review 1500+ LIRs within a 2 to 3 years time.
David Hilario
IP Manager
Larus Cloud Service Limited
p: <a href="tel:+852%202988%208918" value="+85229888918" target="_blank">+852 29888918</a> m: <a href="tel:+359%2089%20764%201784" value="+359897641784" target="_blank">+359 89 764 1784</a>
f: <a href="tel:+852%202988%208068" value="+85229888068" target="_blank">+852 29888068</a>
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
w: <a href="http://laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">laruscloudservice.net</a>
e: <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank">d.hilario@laruscloudservice.ne<wbr>t</a>
On 12 July 2017 at 11:30, Noah <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank"><noah@neo.co.tz></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>On 12 Jul 2017 9:47 a.m., "Bill Woodcock" <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:woody@pch.net" target="_blank"><woody@pch.net></a> wrote:
18 Against:
<a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chenghn@chinaccsi.com" target="_blank">"chenghn@chinaccsi.com"</a> <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chenghn@chinaccsi.com" target="_blank"><chenghn@chinaccsi.com></a>
Andrew Alston <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank"><Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.c<wbr>om></a>
Bastein Li <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bastienlee@qq.com" target="_blank"><bastienlee@qq.com></a>
Christopher Mwangi <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christopher.mwangi@liquidtelecom.com" target="_blank"><christopher.mwangi@liquidtele<wbr>com.com></a>
David Hilario <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:d.hilario@laruscloudservice.net" target="_blank"><d.hilario@laruscloudservice.n<wbr>et></a>
Derrick Harrison <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:derrick.harrison@sonictelecoms.co.za" target="_blank"><derrick.harrison@sonictelecom<wbr>s.co.za></a>
Douglas Onyango <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ondouglas@gmail.com" target="_blank"><ondouglas@gmail.com></a>
Kris Seeburn <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" target="_blank"><seeburn.k@gmail.com></a>
Lu Heng <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com" target="_blank"><h.lu@anytimechinese.com></a>
Mark Elkins <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank"><mje@posix.co.za></a>
Mark Tinka <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu" target="_blank"><mark.tinka@seacom.mu></a>
McTim <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank"><dogwallah@gmail.com></a>
Mike Silber <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank"><silber.mike@gmail.com></a>
Nishal Goburdhan <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za" target="_blank"><nishal@controlfreak.co.za></a>
Noah <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank"><noah@neo.co.tz></a>
S Moonesamy <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sm+afrinic@elandsys.com" target="_blank"><sm+afrinic@elandsys.com></a>
Saul Stein <a class="m_7194601970520372074m_-6072787413867898537m_-7340473407644055375m_-8175386181327973672moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za" target="_blank"><saul@enetworks.co.za></a>
Hi Bill
on the contrary, I actually support the policy just like other folks which
is why it reached the last call. This policy would enable AFRINIC just like
ARIN, RIPE NCC and other RIR to effect compliance.
So, the next question might be whether this is a winner-take-all vote, or an
assessment of whether a clear consensus exists.
We continue to trust the co-chairs who have guided us to this stage.
Cheers
Noah
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:55px;padding-top:18px"><a href="https://www.avast.com/fr-fr/c-malware?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclients&utm_term=oa-2335-v2-c" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png" style="width:46px;height:29px" height="29" width="46"></a></td>
<td style="width:470px;padding-top:17px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Vérification des <a href="https://www.avast.com/fr-fr/c-malware?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclients&utm_term=oa-2335-v2-c" style="color:#4453ea" target="_blank">malwares</a> effectuée </td>
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