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[rpd] [Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Saul Stein saul at
Fri May 12 07:10:00 UTC 2017


Please can you explain how this is an abuse of the RPD?

We have a serious issue of internet shutdowns on our continent. The impact 
that it has on education, the economy etc is immeasurable!

This should be of grace concern to all of us!

The authors of the policy have stated numerous times that this is an 
evolving proposal.

The important thing is that it is encouraging global debate on how to 
resolve this issue. THAT is what this proposal is about – ways to prevent 
this from happening.

Whatever solutions we come up with – but that can only happen with this 
debate, so I don’t see how it’s a waist!


From: Mirriam [mailto:mirriamlauren at]
Sent: 11 May 2017 08:24 PM
To: Tutu Ngcaba <pan.afrikhan at>; Mark Elkins <mje at>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at>; AfriNIC 
List <rpd at>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy 
discussed at RIPE

Hi All,

I totally agree with what Badru has stated and I really hope the PDP update 
policy proposal on the table before us can help to improve the Afrinic 
policy development process and environment notwithstanding quality of work 
so as to avoid such abuses of the pdp.



On Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 1:41:29 PM GMT+3, Tutu Ngcaba 
<pan.afrikhan at <mailto:pan.afrikhan at> > wrote:

Brother Elkins,

The ICANN chairman Steve said some concern of internet shutdown will 
undermine the missions of Icann and the Afrinic and they two have the 
potential power to do something in return.

The Afrinic Government Working Group AFGWG can work with the ICANN to 
achieve more mutlistakeholders talkings and meetings. This is what needs to 
be done in return.

I ask the AFGWG to do some taking to the ICANN and they can meet our 
governments for education on economic important of Internet.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

On 10 May 2017 12:53 p.m., "Mark Elkins" <mje at 
<mailto:mje at> > wrote:

I downloaded the complete video  from RIPE and watched it a few times. I was 
also watching live.

Its large - but if you can do, download it and watch it. e/video/Andrew_Alston-Anti- 
Shutdown_Policies_-_The_Ration ale-20170508-171822.mp4 

Then again, when the Chairman of ICANN stands up and says that ICANN can 

"Hi, my name is Steve Crocker, I am Chairman of ICANN and I'm here to help 
you. (Regarding) take out of the root the affected ccTLD names" and he then 
volunteered assistance from ICANN staff - also saying it would take between 
two and five years to get to a decision whether to proceed or not.

The current policy concept does not go that far - but to me - certainly 
suggests that the idea of punitive actions against governments is worth 
looking at.

I regard it like a nuclear bomb. When in the hands of sane people (RIR's and 
ICANN), it is a threat - to persuade bad actors to have second thoughts 
against cutting people off from access to the Internet. If governments 
choose to cut people off from access to the Internet for political reasons, 
to me this is undermining the core mission of ICANN and the RIR's, both of 
whom have the potential power to do something in return. We need to enable 
that power from being simply a potential to being ready for use and hope its 
never needed to be used.

On 10/05/2017 11:01, Noah wrote:

Mmmm on the contrary seems like most folk on the floor disagreed with the 
contraversial policy and its approach no matter how much the Arthors seek 
for better ways to improve it.

Some suggested multistake holder engagement and in particular Leslie Daigle 
comments on the floor are worth taking into serious considerations by the 

Leslie Daigle of ISOC agrees that there is a problem. She has concerns but 
sounded to me more would like to see something. She just doesn't want to see 
dialogue being undermined by this policy.

Perhaps talk is not enough?

The best comment in my opinion was from the Alan Durand who reminded 
everyone what the real core mission of the RIR community is,  and that 

I'd say he was more worried about the policy being used for much more than 
it is currently intended for. (referenced to the colour of people's hair as 
a reason to cut them off the Internet).

"To allocate resources and maintain the accuracy of the database".PERIOD. 


[1]I have had in the past folk state statements like "How some ome runs his 
network is none of anyones business and in that matter policing the network 
is none of AFRINICs business"

On 10 May 2017 10:39 a.m., "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.c om 
<mailto:Andrew.Alston at> > wrote:

Thanks Marcus,

Just some feedback for the community.

It's been a great experience here at RIPE and some of the ideas given and 
the extensive discussions following the presentation referred to by Marcus 
have been both useful and informative.

Draft 2 will be submitted shortly very much in line with what I presented in 
that presentation - and before the 7 day deadline as per the PDP so we can 
discuss on that basis.

Following the meeting in Nairobi, I suspect we will then be gathering still 
further input and further drafts will follow, if there is no consensus found 
on the floor for the draft 2 that will be submitted.

I think for myself, the most important thing I have seen at RIPE so far, is 
the huge willingness by people from every walk of life to engage in dialog 
and discussion over this, and it was heartening to see both my own positions 
and the positions of those I was discussing with shift as explanations were 
given and questions were asked and answered.  Since giving that presentation 
I have barely had a minute to think as people approached me to talk this 
through - and I really hope to see such engagement in Nairobi, because it 
truly showed the benefit of a multi stakeholder approach where open dialog 
and communication can happen, even in the absence of agreement and in the 
face of controversial material where people hold strong and emotive views.

I look forward to the discussions on the floor of the PDP and engaging with 
all of you to hear your thoughts and views and finding the right solution to 
the issue.



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From: Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at <mailto:madomey at> 
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 11:48:42 PM
To: rpd at <mailto:rpd at> ; community-discuss at 
<mailto:community-discuss at>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at 

Dear Colleagues.

You might want to see the presentation of the controversial draft 
anti-shutdown policy (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01) at a recent RIPE meeting. 
I found the questions/comments from the RIPE community similar to that 
shared by many on the RPD, mostly about the inappropriateness of such policy 
in our region… or any other for that matter.  Enjoy watching it. es/video/41/ 


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