[rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

Tue Apr 18 16:35:12 UTC 2017

Dear brother Arnaud

Ok yes now i got it.  Yes this is true as i  am getting to know more and
more about the Afrinic since attending in the meeting in Botswana and i see
even in email list we have so many problems.

Our elders with the experience must try to support the Afrinic in guidance
as its our Afrinic as the people.

If there are problems, they must tell community about it openly since it is
non profit and dependent of the African people support it.

We dont want to create more problems for the Afrinic bra...

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

On 18 Apr 2017 7:24 p.m., "Arnaud AMELINA" <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:

You say

Why we want the Afrinic to create rules which will never works in real life?

And I reply

Just to make noise, to disturb real discussions about real Afrinic problems
and wast time, according to me.

Regards

Le 18 avr. 2017 16:14, "Tutu Ngcaba" <pan.afrikhan at gmail.com> a écrit :

Hello Brother Arnaud Amelina

Thank you but i did not understand the making of the noice of disturbing
the real discussion of Afrinic problem.

Shall you explain to me please bra.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

On 18 Apr 2017 5:50 p.m., "Arnaud AMELINA" <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:

Well said brother.

Le 18 avr. 2017 13:34, "Tutu Ngcaba" <pan.afrikhan at gmail.com> a écrit :

Dear Mr.Mark Elkins,

In south Africa if government shuts yes it shall not succeed as our
politics also different and we big economy which internet is also spread
from telkom to other many isp.

But the ideas of your email is maybe true buy the look like predictions.

Did the Afrinic ever ever not get paid by its customers of IPv4 address
because they did not have the money to pay for the next year because of the
internet shuts?

Does the Afrinic have such report from the customer who was blocked before.?

If our Afrinic is worry about loosing payment from ISP which didnt do
business due to internet cuts after 1 year then the Afrinic is very harsh
and not understanding.

I am sure the Afrinic also not getting payment from some of the member
customers who delay to pay because of other reasons.

This is political issue and shall be resolved through dialog politically
and government is only shutting because of political threat the internet
pose to it not the Afrinic refusal to give the IP address in future because
they will say same IP is what we shutdown so we dont need it.

Maybe you have to ask why government will do it if indeed there is any
loose to them.

Do you know how much sactions the UN put on some countries and nothing
change as political problem is solved by the people through dialog
eventually.

Why we want the Afrinic to create rules which will never works in real life?

Just to make noise, to disturb real discussions about real Afrinic problems
and wast time, according to me.

Regards

Arnaud

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

On 18 Apr 2017 3:44 p.m., "Mark Elkins" <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:

>
>
> On 17/04/2017 20:06, Adnan RIHAN wrote:
> > Hello brothers,
> >
> > I’m just a young Congolese (BZV) citizen, and here is my own thoughts
> > about this policy and your reactions. I’m a new ML member and this is
> > my first email to any afrinic’s ML.
>
> Welcome to the list. Please note, I'm going to disagree with your
> thought on this. Please don't be offended or stop posting in the future.
> I'm glad you have viewed your opinion because I believe many others -
> including Governments - share it with you.  I also assume that you
> wouldn't mind if there was a solution to the problem of Internet
> disconnections.
>
> > Some of us live in more or less free countries, others under hidden
> > dictatorships, and the rest of us in locked-down countries.
>
> True. I think I live in a more or less free country. Switching off the
> Internet in South Africa wouldn't be as simple as perhaps others. We
> have multiple undersea cables and cables that cross boarders all over. A
> number of people also have Satellite connections. We have a large number
> of providers and much of our content is local. An Internet shutdown
> would indeed be a catastrophe, the countries economy would almost
> certainly slow down considerably.
>
> > This policy started from an idea, good or bad, based on the fact that
> > Internet is sometimes shutdown in some countries, for good or bad
> > reasons. Unfortunately, AFRINIC has NO POWER AT ALL on any
> > governments, so we are trying to find a leverage.
>
> This is not quite true (AFRINIC has no power).
>
> There are many organisations that want to see Internet Access for all,
> such as ISOC. AFRINIC also falls within this category. This is part of
> AFRINIC's vision.
>
> Unlike a number of these organisations, AFRINIC actually does have
> power. All machines connected to the Internet need unique identifiers -
> that is, IP addresses. If its IPv4 - it could be behind NAT, but
> somewhere along the line - something has to have a unique address. For
> IPv6 - there is no NAT - so every machine numbered with IPv6 is unique.
> (I'm ignoring things like AnyCast - to keep this discussion simple).
>
> What do you think happens when someone who is a customer of an RIR stops
> paying the RIR for their services? The Address space is reclaimed. The
> RIR can examine the Routing Tables and if the address space is still
> being advertised - they can ask a suitable upstream service provider (or
> two) to stop accepting the routes - so the Address space is no longer
> seen. That organisation is then effectively cut off from using the
> Internet.
>
> This is what AFRINIC can do.
>
> Perhaps with this (completely plausible) threat hanging over people that
> want to block Internet to other people - they will think twice before
> doing so - because there can be consequences. Perhaps, up until now,
> they are thinking like you, that no one can cut them off? You should
> rather be telling people, indeed, AFRINC could cut you off.
>
> > Like Tutu said, there is almost nothing we (as AFRINIC’s community)
> > can do about it without collateral damages on citizens.
>
> If the citizens are already being cut off - what further damage would be
> done? Others might actually say "Hey, you are cutting off that
> population group - then we will happily join them" ?
>
> >  Considering
> > the fact that this Policy would be dangerous for citizens and nearly
> > useless against governments, we should start a thread somewhere else
> > to continue finding ideas.
>
> I hope you see that this is not necessarily correct.
>
> > Unfortunately, only citizens of a country have the power to change
> > things, legally and peacefully. Such citizens could organize a sit in
> > (if it’s legal) in front of gov’s offices, write mass letters, do a
> > peaceful walk or even create a local protesting group associating
> > medias. Anyways,
>
> That is certainly one method to do this. Use public opinion to get a
> change to happen. It doesn't seem to have worked in the Cameroon yet.
>
> > it won’t be AFRINIC’s business.
>
> ...it could be AFRINIC's business policy - ugly as it is.
>
>
> > --
> > Regards, Adnan RIHAN
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>

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