[rpd] New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)

Thu May 26 19:19:35 UTC 2016

I strongly desagree with Mark,
In french...
L'idée que les plongeurs aillent au fond de la mer ou en eaux profondes c'est qu'ils y trouvent du poisson. Aujourd'hui avec une telle politique, c'est d'avoir constamment du poisson à cet endroit et que ces poissons appartiennent à cette mer-là. Sinon on ferait des piscines pour ces poissons.
Comprenons une chose : on a besoin des ressources, alors on en crée des besoins par translations des besoins existants : IXP, NIC
Une telle proposition fait une médiane alors elle respecte les normes et l’équité. Pourquoi vendanger ce qui nous fait: notre identité ?

Voilà pourquoi il faut soutenir cette proposition.

Patrick.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : rpd-request at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-request at afrinic.net]
Envoyé : lundi 23 mai 2016 10:17
À : rpd at afrinic.net
Objet : RPD Digest, Vol 116, Issue 50

Send RPD mailing list submissions to
        rpd at afrinic.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        rpd-request at afrinic.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
        rpd-owner at afrinic.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by
      AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)" (Mark Elkins)
   2. Re: New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by
      AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)" (Christopher Mwangi)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 11:26:40 +0200
From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
To: rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject:
Message-ID: <5742CCD0.8050003 at posix.co.za>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I also agree with Tim (and Saul).

Firstly, AFRINIC works on a slow start principal, the first allocation/assignment is usually small - so there would be little wastage due to non-growth.

After that, any new application requires a check on previous applications - that the ISP has reached a certain percentage of utilisation. I'm aware that when Andrew at Liquid Telecom asked for more space the Hostmaster folk at AFRINIC really made him work hard, jumping through loops. I have full trust in the AFRINIC staff. ;-)

If someone stops paying, resources are reclaimed - which satisfies me with what happens when a Member goes out of business.

I'm not aware that any other RIR has a similar policy - not that we should not be able to come up with original ideas in our Region - but this does suggest that its probably not a good idea. They have already run dry, so would have been able to look at this possibility before now.

The thought that occurs to me is one of re-arranging the deckchairs with the IPv4 ship already resting on the sea floor. Fun for SCUBA Divers - but that's about it.

I'd rather hear that ISP's have deployed IPv6, at least on all externally facing services including all DNS, E-Mail and WEB Services.

I do not believe that anyone who has not yet deployed IPv6 as per above can morally support this proposal - they have not done their bit.
And if they have, they will realise that this policy adds very little value.

I do not support this Policy.

On 23/05/2016 10:45, Saul Stein wrote:
> I agree with McTim.
> If the member is in breach of the RSA, then membership criteria should
> deal with that.
> If a member applies and received resources, there are conditions
> attached and need to be adhered to and the terms and conditions of the
> agreement should deal with any breached.   IF and only if that process
> is broken, should we look at fixing it, but not by putting other
> processes in place to fix other issues!
>
> Is there perhaps an real example of an issue that needs to be solved here?
>
> Regards
> Saul
>
> On 22 May 2016, at 18:06, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com
> <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com
>> <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Section 4 of the Registration Service Agreement (RSA) provides the
>>     framework for investigations of the usage of allocated Internet
>>     Number resources, defines members? obligation to cooperate and the
>>     measures to be taken by AFRINIC in case of failure to comply.
>>
>>
>> If the above is the case, why is this policy needed?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     The lack of such investigation or regular control can lead to
>>     inefficient usage of the Internet Number resources, to stockpiling
>>     and other types of abuse.
>>
>>
>> Is there any evidence to support this statement??
>>
>>
>> I tend to agree with Mr. Alston, it seems to me to be  "impractical".
>>
>> It would impose significant costs on the organisation to an end which
>> is already at our disposal.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> McTim
>> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
>> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>> _______________________________________________
>> RPD mailing list
>> RPD at afrinic.net <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>

--
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 4230 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20160523/13278de9/attachment-0001.p7s>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:16:02 +0000
From: Christopher Mwangi <christopher.mwangi at liquidtelecom.com>
To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>, rpd <rpd at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by
        AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)"
Message-ID:
        <VI1PR03MB111831D9E9C4F2780FDAC49B824E0 at VI1PR03MB1118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I agree with Mark Elkins,

Are the current resource issuance and reclaim  procedures and controls effective ? Is there justifiable proof of wastage?

Besides being open to abuse , the overhead, complexity , time,  ?intrusion on customers networks? , and the benchmark of its effectiveness are valid concerns that should not be taken lightly .

Despite shelfing the real issue  - ipv6 , such a policy has  far reaching ramifications.

And for this , I do not support the policy ,

Thanks

Christopher

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Elkins [mailto:mje at posix.co.za]
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 12:27 PM
To: rpd
Subject: Re: [rpd] New Proposal - "Internet Number Resources Audit by AFRINIC (AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT01)"

I also agree with Tim (and Saul).

Firstly, AFRINIC works on a slow start principal, the first allocation/assignment is usually small - so there would be little wastage due to non-growth.

After that, any new application requires a check on previous applications - that the ISP has reached a certain percentage of utilisation. I'm aware that when Andrew at Liquid Telecom asked for more space the Hostmaster folk at AFRINIC really made him work hard, jumping through loops. I have full trust in the AFRINIC staff. ;-)

If someone stops paying, resources are reclaimed - which satisfies me with what happens when a Member goes out of business.

I'm not aware that any other RIR has a similar policy - not that we should not be able to come up with original ideas in our Region - but this does suggest that its probably not a good idea. They have already run dry, so would have been able to look at this possibility before now.

The thought that occurs to me is one of re-arranging the deckchairs with the IPv4 ship already resting on the sea floor. Fun for SCUBA Divers - but that's about it.

I'd rather hear that ISP's have deployed IPv6, at least on all externally facing services including all DNS, E-Mail and WEB Services.

I do not believe that anyone who has not yet deployed IPv6 as per above can morally support this proposal - they have not done their bit.

And if they have, they will realise that this policy adds very little value.

I do not support this Policy.

On 23/05/2016 10:45, Saul Stein wrote:

> I agree with McTim.

> If the member is in breach of the RSA, then membership criteria should

> deal with that.

> If a member applies and received resources, there are conditions

> attached and need to be adhered to and the terms and conditions of the

> agreement should deal with any breached.   IF and only if that process

> is broken, should we look at fixing it, but not by putting other

> processes in place to fix other issues!

>

> Is there perhaps an real example of an issue that needs to be solved here?

>

> Regards

> Saul

>

> On 22 May 2016, at 18:06, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com

> <mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> All,

>>

>>

>>

>> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com

>> <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>> wrote:

>>

>> <snip>

>>

>>

>>

>>     Section 4 of the Registration Service Agreement (RSA) provides
>> the

>>     framework for investigations of the usage of allocated Internet

>>     Number resources, defines members? obligation to cooperate and
>> the

>>     measures to be taken by AFRINIC in case of failure to comply.

>>

>>

>> If the above is the case, why is this policy needed?

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>     The lack of such investigation or regular control can lead to

>>     inefficient usage of the Internet Number resources, to
>> stockpiling

>>     and other types of abuse.

>>

>>

>> Is there any evidence to support this statement??

>>

>>

>> I tend to agree with Mr. Alston, it seems to me to be  "impractical".

>>

>> It would impose significant costs on the organisation to an end which

>> is already at our disposal.

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> Cheers,

>>

>> McTim

>> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A

>> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

>> _______________________________________________

>> RPD mailing list

>> RPD at afrinic.net<mailto:RPD at afrinic.net> <mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> RPD mailing list

> RPD at afrinic.net<mailto:RPD at afrinic.net>

> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

>

--

Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa

mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496

For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20160523/4a8d282b/attachment.html>

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
RPD at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

------------------------------

End of RPD Digest, Vol 116, Issue 50
************************************
Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes (ci-après le "message") sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération, par conséquent l'ARTCI décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altèré, déformé ou falsifié.
Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes (ci-après le "message") sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération, par conséquent l'ARTCI décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altèré, déformé ou falsifié.