[members-discuss] [rpd] Privacy breach of nomcom2015's Mailing.List

Tue Jun 9 10:36:14 UTC 2015

Wouldn't it be simpler to just log in and cast the vote without pgp and
pki?

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:

> Wouldn't it be simpler to just PGP-sign the vote, and skip all the
> document-checking?
>
>
>                 -Bill
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 09:32, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com');>> wrote:
>
>  Hi Ismail,
>
>
>
> There are various reasons I can see, and I’m sure more than I haven’t yet
> seen.
>
>
>
> One of the things that has been brought to my attention with regards to
> remote electronic voting is that many people are hesitant to provide
> identification documents to AfriNIC that are stored by AfriNIC due to
> security reasons.  (Current process says that you have to send a copy of an
> ID document to AfriNIC to get a BPKI certificate that is used to vote).
> I’ve had some discussions in this regard with various people and will be
> putting forward a proposal or two for consideration to see if we can
> perhaps resolve this.  It’s my personal view that there is no need for such
> documents to be stored by AfriNIC so long as they are verified and
> validated.  One of the things that was pointed out for example, is that in
> certain countries you can take your ID document to a bank, they verify its
> real, and they provide you a letter saying they have seen it, they have
> verified it, it is real, and you use that letter rather than actually
> disclosing the ID document (I believe that was in Germany but am open to
> correction).
>
>
>
> Perhaps we could look at a similar approach, not necessarily with banks,
> but with other members in good standing that are trusted being used to
> verify such documents.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, I know of some fairly large registration drives that will be
> happening in the next few months conducted by various members of the
> community at various meetings, where time has been set aside specifically
> to assist people in getting registered so that come the next election they
> can cast their votes.  That being said, we may need to resolve the first
> issue I raised before hand.
>
>
>
> With regards to the discussions online, that’s a complicated issue.  I
> argue that many of our members probably don’t understand the criticality of
> AfriNIC, the powers they as members hold, or the consequences of AfriNIC
> going wrong.  This is an education issue that needs to be solved.
>
>
>
> The question here is, does this education issue need to be resolved from
> an AfriNIC perspective, or does this need to come from active members of
> the community?  I would argue the latter, but it is subject to a debate.
>
>
>
> Irrespective of who does the educating though, I believe the community
> needs to better understand the following aspects (and potentially others)
>
>
>
> a.)    What are the contents of the current bylaws, and what rights AND
> obligations do they bestow on members
>
> b.)    What rights and obligations does the member services agreement
> bestow on members
>
> c.)     If members are unhappy with the status-quo, what are the ways
> they can address these issues, how can THEY create change.
>
>
>
> Yes, we talk of committees, and they have their place and are useful, but
> be that as it may, it can be argued that members need to know they
> themselves are empowered to propose the changes they feel are necessary and
> should be encouraged to do so.  That is what a membership organization is
> about, letting the members speak and be heard, irrespective of if we agree
> with what is being said or not.
>
>
>
> To finish these thoughts, I’d like to quote Margaret Mead…
>
>
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can
> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
> (Written entirely in my own personal capacity)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ismailmss at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ismailmss at gmail.com');> [
> mailto:ismailmss at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ismailmss at gmail.com');>] *On Behalf Of *Ismail
> M. Settenda
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2015 10:01 AM
> *To:* Seun Ojedeji
> *Cc:* Andrew Alston; Mwendwa Kivuva; rpd
> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] [rpd] Privacy breach of nomcom2015's
> Mailing List
>
>
>
> @Andrew, in adding to Seun's comments I agree with your observations
> ..however I am thinking that though an idea is valid and right lets not
> force the issue if understanding has not been achieved especially if as you
> say it is for the community.... and as Seun has pointed out there is some
> progress (not as fast as it should be but some progress nevertheless).
>
> I am wondering if you could do something different this time round to get
> the on-line discussions improving by initiating some program whose goal is
> to enable people participate more before we get to the AGMM but by first
> identifying and understanding the reasons why they are quiet. , cause
> people keep silent for various reasons: some don't want to add more to the
> noise, some don't know it is their mandate to say something, some don't
> believe it the right forum for change....e.t.c....e.t.c
>
> This way between now and the next AGMM you have some pointers for you to
> analyze on why on-line participation is low and then model some mechanisms
> to correct this. These the board could then take into consideration and
> catalyze and steer the discussion at the AGMM to a more representative and
> unified conclusion.
>
> I believe the best time we have for this organization and to pay attention
> to the issues is when we are away from home and away from our daily lives
> so lets maximize on that but we should not then make it the only time we
> are willing to spare for the organization that provides us resources that
> are critical to our businesses.
>
> Regards
>
>    --
> Ismail
>
> TISPA
>
>
>
> On 9 June 2015 at 08:26, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> I agree with you Andrew; discussions should not wait till face 2 face and
> we should discuss them as much as possible on the list.
> I think that is happening and improving as far as policy is concerned.
>
> Resolution discussion on the other hand is not something that people are
> used to discussing on the list (especially on members list) as they don't
> come often.
>
> That said, I think substantive discussion on the various list will
> continue to improve as the organisation leadership continue to act
> transparently and communicate with the community on status of things. The
> more we get clear view of things, the more likely that our content will be
> based more on substance and facts.
>
> Regards
> sent from Google nexus 4
> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>
> On 9 Jun 2015 05:54, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com');>> wrote:
>
>    Hi All,
>
>
>
> While I have largely chosen to stay silent in this debate, because I
> believe many of these issues were already resolved at the AGMM, there is
> one thing I would like to comment on.
>
>
>
> *This has become quite normal. Somebody at the floor of the AGM called the
> entire Afrinic community "a community of mutings" or something like it. And
> he did it full of arrogance and sense of importance.*
>
> Let me take a second to clarify what I actually said here.
>
> Far to often when something is brought to the floor of a meeting, people
> want to either complain that it hasn’t been discussed first or that they
> have never seen it.  The reality is, most issues that land on the floor of
> either the PDP or the AGMM have in some form or another been on these
> lists.  The comment made here was in reference to the special resolutions
> that I put on the floor, and the people on the floor who stated that the
> community had not discussed them or provided input to them.  This was
> inaccurate, since the special resolutions had been placed on the members
> list on the 20th of May 2015, and the community had chosen not to respond
> to them or discuss them.  I referred to that as “mute mode”, and never said
> “a community of mutings”.
>
>
>
> If we choose to stay silent on the lists and only respond when things
> eventually hit the floor of the meeting room, I argue that we have done the
> community a huge disservice and we should castigate ourselves for that,
> rather than complaining we had no chance to comment.  Why do I say this?
> Because the reality is that on the floor we have fairly low representation,
> and in fact in terms of members, less than 10% of members were represented
> on the members side of the room in the AGMM.  By choosing to only discuss
> and debate (and indeed object) to things only in the room, we
> disenfranchise the rest of the member base, and deny them our opinions and
> their chance to agree or rebut.
>
>
>
> This is not the first time this issue has come up either.  As I pointed
> out then, it took an *incredibly* controversial policy going to the floor
> of the PDP in Tanzania to really engender debate, and in the weeks prior to
> that policy going to the floor, the community had almost nothing to say on
> the mailing lists, yet when it came to the floor, there was a longer queue
> at the microphone than anything I have ever seen before or since.
>
>
>
> We need to decide, is the only time we have for this organisation and to
> pay attention to the issues when we are away from home and away from our
> daily lives?  Is that the only time we are willing to spare for the
> organisation that provides us resources that are critical to our
> businesses?  I would hope we are more dedicated than that.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rpd mailing list
> rpd at afrinic.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rpd at afrinic.net');>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rpd mailing list
> rpd at afrinic.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rpd at afrinic.net');>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rpd mailing list
> rpd at afrinic.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rpd at afrinic.net');>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20150609/87d463c5/attachment.html>