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[rpd] New proposal - "Out-Of-Region Use of AFRINIC Internet Number Resources" (AFPUB-2014-GEN-002-DRAFT-01)

Noah Maina mainanoa at
Thu Jul 10 16:52:04 UTC 2014

On 10 July 2014 19:19, Nishal Goburdhan <ndg at> wrote:

> On 09 Jul 2014, at 10:02 AM, Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at> wrote:
> > Hi Omo,
> > On 9 July 2014 04:14, Omo Oaiya <omo at> wrote:
> [snip]
> > This means each RIR is expected to operate within the boundaries of the
> regions they serve.
> > Against this backdrop when space from one RIR is used Outside of that
> > RIR [Out-of-region], it is generally considered to be at odds with
> > this general principle.
> bzzt.  no, not really, and no sane operator world-wide will attest to
> this.  when i was an operator, i routed space from at least three different
> other regions for customers of mine, that were operating infrastructure
> _inside_ africa - as long as they could show legitimate right to use this
> space.  large mulitnationals often operate like this.  where the
> multinational obtains the space from, was not my (operator) concern.  that
> my client could show the right to use it, was.
> when i was an operator, i used address space that i had received to build
> my (african based) network, in at least three other continents.  the
> internet police have yet to come knocking on my door...
> RIRs allocate resources to _organisations_ in their region.
> if i look at some of the prefixes that i see at african exchange points, i
> see a fair chunk of "international" space.  good for them, i say.
> > There are multiple exceptions/intricacies with this principle, but I
> hope you get the general point.
> i don't think you've answered Omo's question.  but i'll leave that to Omo
> to decide.
> > Because of the many exceptions, and other reasons, I can't begin to
> > quantify how many. I hope AFRINIC will have a better answer.
> >
> >> Is there any evidence of this?  If there is, what is the current
> procedure
> >> for such
> >
> > Perhaps staff can provide a more authoritative answer to this.
> >
> >> Would this require every request to state % of out-of-region usage and
> show
> >> it in network?
> >
> > Staff is again better placed to response to this as they will be
> > responsible for the implementation/enforcement.
> so perhaps then, it would be prudent to get an indication of exactly _how_
> much of a nuisance this is, _before_ trying to fit policy, eh?
> there are many other forums that bemoan the growth of behemoth
> ISPs/carriers in africa.  as a result, africa has come to rely on
> non-african carries to manage her connectivity, and we've seen how that's
> traditionally worked out.  i suggest you spend the time necessary to
> consider how your proposed policy affects africa's ability to grow and
> sustain these giants of our own.  i would hate to think that one of the
> large operators from here, that was looking to expand their global network
> into another region suddenly can't .. haven't we just shot ourselves in the
> foot?
> frankly, i wish those carriers would speak up for themselves, since it
> seems that very few actual operators have spoken up in this thread, thusfar.
> imho, if you truly want better uptake of resources in africa, you should
> be making it easier for bona-fida african organisations to get those
> resources.
> and note:  i haven't mentioned anything about verifying resource usage in
> a policy appropriate location, because, i believe that's largely
> unenforceable, and would welcome _sound_ evidence to the contrary.  like
> most of you, i guess, i'll wait for the staff analysis on how they see this
> being done.
> the sooner folks accept that an IP address is really just about
> routability, the fewer issues you'll have, and, i predict, the more time
> you'll have to spend on things that matter for the future - like
> IPv6/DNSSEC/...  :-)
+++++1, and to build the African Internet, IP's will have to cross the
boarders definitely.... That is the "Internet" for you! boundaries but
the filters on that Ethernet port.

> shalom,
> --n._______________________________________________
> rpd mailing list
> rpd at
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