<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 10 July 2014 19:19, Nishal Goburdhan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ndg@ieee.org" target="_blank">ndg@ieee.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 09 Jul 2014, at 10:02 AM, Douglas Onyango <<a href="mailto:ondouglas@gmail.com">ondouglas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi Omo,<br>
> On 9 July 2014 04:14, Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:omo@wacren.net">omo@wacren.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
[snip]<br>
<br>
> This means each RIR is expected to operate within the boundaries of the regions they serve.<br>
> Against this backdrop when space from one RIR is used Outside of that<br>
> RIR [Out-of-region], it is generally considered to be at odds with<br>
> this general principle.<br>
<br>
bzzt. no, not really, and no sane operator world-wide will attest to this. when i was an operator, i routed space from at least three different other regions for customers of mine, that were operating infrastructure _inside_ africa - as long as they could show legitimate right to use this space. large mulitnationals often operate like this. where the multinational obtains the space from, was not my (operator) concern. that my client could show the right to use it, was.<br>
<br>
when i was an operator, i used address space that i had received to build my (african based) network, in at least three other continents. the internet police have yet to come knocking on my door...<br>
<br>
RIRs allocate resources to _organisations_ in their region.<br>
if i look at some of the prefixes that i see at african exchange points, i see a fair chunk of "international" space. good for them, i say.<br>
<br>
<br>
> There are multiple exceptions/intricacies with this principle, but I hope you get the general point.<br>
<br>
i don't think you've answered Omo's question. but i'll leave that to Omo to decide.<br>
<br>
<br>
> Because of the many exceptions, and other reasons, I can't begin to<br>
> quantify how many. I hope AFRINIC will have a better answer.<br>
><br>
>> Is there any evidence of this? If there is, what is the current procedure<br>
>> for such<br>
><br>
> Perhaps staff can provide a more authoritative answer to this.<br>
><br>
>> Would this require every request to state % of out-of-region usage and show<br>
>> it in network?<br>
><br>
> Staff is again better placed to response to this as they will be<br>
> responsible for the implementation/enforcement.<br>
<br>
so perhaps then, it would be prudent to get an indication of exactly _how_ much of a nuisance this is, _before_ trying to fit policy, eh?<br>
<br>
there are many other forums that bemoan the growth of behemoth ISPs/carriers in africa. as a result, africa has come to rely on non-african carries to manage her connectivity, and we've seen how that's traditionally worked out. i suggest you spend the time necessary to consider how your proposed policy affects africa's ability to grow and sustain these giants of our own. i would hate to think that one of the large operators from here, that was looking to expand their global network into another region suddenly can't .. haven't we just shot ourselves in the foot?<br>
<br>
frankly, i wish those carriers would speak up for themselves, since it seems that very few actual operators have spoken up in this thread, thusfar.<br>
<br>
imho, if you truly want better uptake of resources in africa, you should be making it easier for bona-fida african organisations to get those resources.<br>
<br>
and note: i haven't mentioned anything about verifying resource usage in a policy appropriate location, because, i believe that's largely unenforceable, and would welcome _sound_ evidence to the contrary. like most of you, i guess, i'll wait for the staff analysis on how they see this being done.<br>
<br>
the sooner folks accept that an IP address is really just about routability, the fewer issues you'll have, and, i predict, the more time you'll have to spend on things that matter for the future - like IPv6/DNSSEC/... :-)<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>+++++1, and to build the African Internet, IP's will have to cross the boarders definitely.... That is the "Internet" for you!...no boundaries but the filters on that Ethernet port.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
shalom,<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div>