[rpd] IPv4 policy on where space is used.

Fri May 16 20:07:11 UTC 2014

Hello Ben,

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Ben Roberts
<Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>wrote:

>  Thanks Seun.
>
>  But it's not even about monitoring.
>

Yeah i am also with you on this.

>  As an African company leading the way in African Internet development we
> are expanding outwards. I will be opening network points in UAE and
> possibly Singapore this year expanding to Asia. Of course I should be
> allowed to use our resources there.
>

+1 and we are proud of you ;) This could be why we should ensure that you
are encouraged while also making sure that as you spread your tentacles you
don't forget home ;) Inview of this wouldn't you think it will be a good
thing to motivate you with a 50% local and 50% abroad on resource? If not,
what percentage would you think is fair enough.

>
>  Everyone seems to be worrying about Non African Internet companies
> encroaching in to use African IP resources. Just remember there are large
> African Internet companies moving outwards. We are one of those and I can
> think of others in the same category as well as groups of MNOs from Africa
> that are way bigger.
>

Just that considering the recent exhaustions in other region, Africa seem
to have become the cake on the table with all regions grabbing their
cutleries to have their share of it ;). So don't you think it will be good
to make those IP resource available to companies like you (that has base in
Africa) so that even when you go abroad you will still have IP to use
(considering that v4 addresses is almost exhausted in that region)?

One of the usual question is to burn v4 to make way for v6; should we burn
to external or burn within? Remember that Afrinic has the least of /8s
among all the RIRs.

Kind Regards

>
>  Cheers
> Ben.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 16 May 2014, at 19:22, "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   This particular one being a good example of a company that has roots in
> Africa. For me I don't think it's more about spending more energy in
> monitoring how you as a member use IP. It's more of reviewing applicants
> membership requirements.
>
> Cheers!
> sent from Google nexus 4
> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
> On 16 May 2014 18:37, "Ben Roberts" <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
>>  Speaking as an African multinational...
>>
>>  We are headquartered in Mauritius and present with IP network  in
>> twelve countries in Africa and 2 in Europe. We are also RIPE members also
>> and we pay a huge premium in LIR fees to Afrinic so I think I am entitled
>> to use my IPs where I jolly well like and will oppose any policy proposal
>> to restrict or prevent us from doing so!
>>
>>  Cheers
>> Ben
>> Liquid Telecom Group Director of Network Strategy.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 16 May 2014, at 18:29, "Stephen Wilcox" <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 May 2014 18:13, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  sent from Google nexus 4
>>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>>>  On 16 May 2014 16:56, "Mark Elkins" <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I believe this is one of the pains that AFRINIC Hostmasters are trying
>>> > to deal with at the moment.
>>> >
>>>  Yeah and they can only try within the limits of the policy.
>>>
>>>  >
>>> So what if we said that at least 50% of all
>>> > number resources had to be for equipment in Africa?
>>> >
>>>  Hmmm... that's could be an option. Perhaps also be helpful to look at
>>> reviewing the requirements that makes an organisation African enough to be
>>> consider for resource.
>>>
>>>  > Should be enough for a truly African ISP to use out of the area.
>>> >
>>>  Yeah 50% is a fair deal, although the other puzzle could be how to
>>> verify this after resource assignment is done ;) hence the reason why
>>> further vetting of organisation establishment status and purpose may be
>>> needed.
>>
>>
>>  Just playing devil's advocate - but who will do this research and
>> maintain it? What if an African multinational is acquired by a non-African
>> company, does it have to free its resources? Or the other way around, a
>> non-African company buying an African one can they suddenly request huge
>> amounts of IP?
>>
>>
>>>  > I'm looking at somehow disallowing an "African" entity from using all
>>> > the numbering resources out side of the Afrinic Region....
>>> >
>>>  Yeah a possibility that I just alluded to above. So the purpose of that
>>> African company should be checked. Things like:
>>>
>>> - What type of service do they provide and are they really services that
>>> utilises IP resource on physical infrastructures (such check more
>>> applicable to those applying as cloud services organization)
>>> - Who are their existing clients
>>> -  History of establishment
>>> -  Does employed staff and organisation base reflect as being
>>> continental.
>>> - Possibly a biannual check of resource usage statistics (if it's not a
>>> tall order)
>>>
>> A company complicated enough to need this level of investigation and due
>> diligence might well be a large company with a team of lawyers questioning
>> how they can release information that may be under NDA. Indeed, how much
>> client and contract information is reasonable to disclose before it becomes
>> a liability?
>>
>>
>>  I think the more complicated you make the rules, the more loopholes and
>> corner cases you create, plus more bureaucracy and red tape. Simple rules
>> will scale better..
>>
>>  Steve
>>
>>  Those tall checks above may not prevent IP export, but it could ensure
>>> some functional provider establishment in Africa.
>>>
>>> Hopefully we can see some policies proposals in that direction.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > Cheers!
>>> > > > Regards
>>> > > > Steve
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On 16 May 2014 15:57, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Personally I am in favour of keeping our resources regional. I
>>> > > think that we
>>> > > >> have all been offered large sums of money to get space and then
>>> > > sell it off
>>> > > >> the continent.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> But then its IP... does it really matter?
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> > > >> From: rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] On
>>> > > Behalf Of
>>> > > >> Mark Elkins
>>> > > >> Sent: 15 May 2014 09:09 PM
>>> > > >> To: rpd at afrinic.net
>>> > > >> Subject: [rpd] IPv4 policy on where space is used.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 21:46 +0400, Kofi ansa akufo wrote:
>>> > > >> >  ....the resource was going out of the region....
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> As far as I am aware, the current requirement for getting address
>>> > > space is
>>> > > >> that you are a company properly established (all legal - as such)
>>> > > in Africa.
>>> > > >> There is currently no policy (except with the last /8) that states
>>> > > the
>>> > > >> resources you get have to be used in Africa....
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> This might be good.... (get rid of all the IPv4, start using IPv6)
>>> > > or Bad...
>>> > > >> (we are doing *what* with our resources???)
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Maybe some policy needs to be designed - how do people feel...
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> --
>>> > > >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>>> > > >> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>>> > > >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:
>>> > > https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > > >> rpd mailing list
>>> > > >> rpd at afrinic.net
>>> > > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > > rpd mailing list
>>> > > > rpd at afrinic.net
>>> > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > rpd mailing list
>>> > > rpd at afrinic.net
>>> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>>> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > rpd mailing list
>>> > rpd at afrinic.net
>>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> rpd at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>    <ATT00002.c>
>>
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-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

The key to understanding is humility - my view !
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