[rpd] IPv4 policy on where space is used.

Fri May 16 18:54:25 UTC 2014

Thanks Seun.

But it's not even about monitoring. As an African company leading the way in African Internet development we are expanding outwards. I will be opening network points in UAE and possibly Singapore this year expanding to Asia. Of course I should be allowed to use our resources there.

Everyone seems to be worrying about Non African Internet companies encroaching in to use African IP resources. Just remember there are large African Internet companies moving outwards. We are one of those and I can think of others in the same category as well as groups of MNOs from Africa that are way bigger.

Cheers
Ben.

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 May 2014, at 19:22, "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com<mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>> wrote:

This particular one being a good example of a company that has roots in Africa. For me I don't think it's more about spending more energy in monitoring how you as a member use IP. It's more of reviewing applicants membership requirements.

Cheers!
sent from Google nexus 4
kindly excuse brevity and typos.

On 16 May 2014 18:37, "Ben Roberts" <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Speaking as an African multinational...

We are headquartered in Mauritius and present with IP network  in twelve countries in Africa and 2 in Europe. We are also RIPE members also and we pay a huge premium in LIR fees to Afrinic so I think I am entitled to use my IPs where I jolly well like and will oppose any policy proposal to restrict or prevent us from doing so!

Cheers
Ben
Liquid Telecom Group Director of Network Strategy.

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 May 2014, at 18:29, "Stephen Wilcox" <steve.wilcox at ixreach.com<mailto:steve.wilcox at ixreach.com>> wrote:

On 16 May 2014 18:13, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com<mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>> wrote:

sent from Google nexus 4
kindly excuse brevity and typos.
On 16 May 2014 16:56, "Mark Elkins" <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:
>
> I believe this is one of the pains that AFRINIC Hostmasters are trying
> to deal with at the moment.
>
Yeah and they can only try within the limits of the policy.

>
So what if we said that at least 50% of all
> number resources had to be for equipment in Africa?
>
Hmmm... that's could be an option. Perhaps also be helpful to look at reviewing the requirements that makes an organisation African enough to be consider for resource.

> Should be enough for a truly African ISP to use out of the area.
>
Yeah 50% is a fair deal, although the other puzzle could be how to verify this after resource assignment is done ;) hence the reason why further vetting of organisation establishment status and purpose may be needed.

Just playing devil's advocate - but who will do this research and maintain it? What if an African multinational is acquired by a non-African company, does it have to free its resources? Or the other way around, a non-African company buying an African one can they suddenly request huge amounts of IP?

> I'm looking at somehow disallowing an "African" entity from using all
> the numbering resources out side of the Afrinic Region....
>
Yeah a possibility that I just alluded to above. So the purpose of that African company should be checked. Things like:

- What type of service do they provide and are they really services that utilises IP resource on physical infrastructures (such check more applicable to those applying as cloud services organization)
- Who are their existing clients
-  History of establishment
-  Does employed staff and organisation base reflect as being continental.
- Possibly a biannual check of resource usage statistics (if it's not a tall order)

A company complicated enough to need this level of investigation and due diligence might well be a large company with a team of lawyers questioning how they can release information that may be under NDA. Indeed, how much client and contract information is reasonable to disclose before it becomes a liability?

I think the more complicated you make the rules, the more loopholes and corner cases you create, plus more bureaucracy and red tape. Simple rules will scale better..

Steve

Those tall checks above may not prevent IP export, but it could ensure some functional provider establishment in Africa.

Hopefully we can see some policies proposals in that direction.

Cheers!

>
>
> >
> > Cheers!
> > > Regards
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 May 2014 15:57, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za<mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Personally I am in favour of keeping our resources regional. I
> > think that we
> > >> have all been offered large sums of money to get space and then
> > sell it off
> > >> the continent.
> > >>
> > >> But then its IP... does it really matter?
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: rpd-bounces at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net> [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net>] On
> > Behalf Of
> > >> Mark Elkins
> > >> Sent: 15 May 2014 09:09 PM
> > >> To: rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> > >> Subject: [rpd] IPv4 policy on where space is used.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 21:46 +0400, Kofi ansa akufo wrote:
> > >> >  ....the resource was going out of the region....
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> As far as I am aware, the current requirement for getting address
> > space is
> > >> that you are a company properly established (all legal - as such)
> > in Africa.
> > >> There is currently no policy (except with the last /8) that states
> > the
> > >> resources you get have to be used in Africa....
> > >>
> > >> This might be good.... (get rid of all the IPv4, start using IPv6)
> > or Bad...
> > >> (we are doing *what* with our resources???)
> > >>
> > >> Maybe some policy needs to be designed - how do people feel...
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> > >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590<tel:%2B27.128070590>  Cell: +27.826010496<tel:%2B27.826010496>
> > >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:
> > https://ftth.posix.co.za
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> rpd mailing list
> > >> rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590<tel:%2B27.128070590>  Cell: +27.826010496<tel:%2B27.826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
> _______________________________________________
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> rpd at afrinic.net<mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
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