[AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)

Mon Feb 4 14:36:03 UTC 2013

Hello Maina
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Maina Noah <mainanoa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> we stick with 1:2 minimum and 1:3 max for the proposal and that should be
> ok.
>
> Does it hurt if its 1:5 max and your institution for instance can ask for
1:2? don't you think we are arguing on the least of the issues....is there
anything wrong with that?

Regards

> Maina
>
>
> On 4 February 2013 17:05, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Maina,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Ok, so even if I agree with you at 2 devices per student (I don’t but
>> let’s assume I do), 1:2 still does not then cater for staff, it does not
>> cater for university infrastructure, it does not cater for lab pc’s, it
>> does no cater for wifi infrastructure and a host of other things.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> So, even if we say a notebook + phone per student, we STILL need at
>> MINIMUM 1:3 (as per original proposal).****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Furthermore, the current proposal does NOT set the minimum at 1:5, it
>> states that 1:5 is the maximum you can get with minimal justification,
>> after that you need further justification.  So, if an institution believes
>> they only need 1:2 or 1:3 they CAN still specify that, they can specify a
>> 1:0.5 if they really wanted to (it would be crazy, but it could be done).
>> All the proposal does is set a maximum figure before lots of documentation
>> is required.  This means that a university that DOES need 1:5 is still
>> covered, a university that needs less can apply for less, the option is
>> open to do that.  What’s the problem?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Andrew****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 04, 2013 4:00 PM
>> *To:* Andrew Alston
>> *Cc:* Jackson Muthili; rpd
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second
>> Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 4 February 2013 14:49, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Hi Maina,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Hi Andrew,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Firstly, almost all modern devices that use 3G automatically switch to
>> Wifi if they are in range and it is accessible.  Try it, take a 3G phone
>> and move in range of a wifi hotspot the phone is authenticated to.  It
>> switches, move outta range, it switches back to 3G.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Fine that is a technology feature.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Secondly, You and Jackson are making an argument on affordability of
>> devices, let me say though, that the argument below is counter-intuitive to
>> this.  You are saying, let those that have them continue to use their
>> provider networks and pay the costs associated with 3G.  This means that
>> the rich students who can afford the data at mobile rates (and it’s not
>> cheap), have a far better experience than those who simply have the devices
>> and cannot afford the 3G/HSDPA/LTE/Whatever commercial data rates. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The point is simple and lets not confuse each other and its best we kept
>> this in the context of students. SO, NOT ALL STUDENTS CAN AFFORD TO HAVE 5
>> DEVICES, not now and not ever on this continent. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The issue of affordability is known and i agree with you on that but like
>> i said my argument stems from the fact that your statistics do not reflect
>> the reality on the ground across this continent. Even the ones you share
>> about Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, Egypt, were all collective internet
>> growth stats per country not per University in each country.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> So, by NOT providing sufficient addressing and accessibility for these
>> devices, you are effectively advocating for an increase in the digital
>> divide.  Once again, the poor get screwed while the rich continue to get a
>> better experience and hence, a better education.  This I have a major
>> problem with.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> No we are not advocating for any digital divide. We are saying that your
>> ratio of 1:5  does not reflect the reality on the ground which is why i
>> indicated that from my experience 1:2 is ok and will still do for the poor
>> students because they will most definitely afford a laptop and a phone.**
>> **
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Andrew****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Noah****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 04, 2013 1:10 PM
>> *To:* Andrew Alston
>> *Cc:* Jackson Muthili; rpd
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second
>> Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Andrew, ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> thanks for this informative research and stats. Do you realize that all
>> those stats are based on Telecom operators networks and IP infra etc. So
>> the question is, why the 1:5 ratio if according to all the stats you have
>> indicated, the same has already been taken care off by the Telecoms who
>> offer the 3G internet services on those devices thus they are already
>> pre-assigned with an IP address.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Maina****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> On 4 February 2013 13:25, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Hi Jackson,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> You assume that the ONLY thing you are addressing here are student
>> devices, what about the University infrastructure itself?  The servers, the
>> staff pc’s, the staff devices, the networking equipment, the wifi ap’s
>> themselves, the list is endless.****
>>
>> Now some stats to say that it is not only South Africa using mobile
>> connectivity, here are some interesting figures.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> An interesting stat, as of 2011 there were 951 MILLION active sim cards
>> in Africa, a figure **WAY** exceeding urban population, indicating
>> multiple devices in the mobile space on that base alone.  By end of 2012,
>> that is predicted to be 1.06 billion, and 1.144 billion by end of 2013
>> (Stats I could get were from 2011, so can only give the predictions for
>> 2012/2013 and not the actual figures).****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Furthermore, Africa and Middle east are predicted to have a compound
>> annual growth rate in mobile connectivity of 129% annually, with a global
>> market share in mobile connectivity rising from 12% as of 2010 to 20% by
>> end of 2015, with the mobile market in Africa representing over 6 billion
>> dollars in 2011 and rising to 12 billion dollars in 2014. (Stats courtesy
>> of Informa Telecoms and Media). ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Now, let’s look at some stats from the Mobile Youth Report 2011 (Note,
>> these are the youth population alone, and not the combined population).  In
>> Nigeria there are 45 million youth using mobile data, South Africa is at 27
>> million, Egypt is at close to 30 million, all three nations have
>> significantly more mobile youth than the UK (currently sitting at around 20
>> million).   Looking at the Opera Mini State of Mobile web report 2011, we
>> see a growth of mobile connectivity in Kenya at 82.8%, in Egypt at 190.9%,
>> in South Africa at 67.7%, in Nigeria at 131.9% in the space of a year.
>> Between December 2010 and March 2011, there was a 36% growth in Nigeria
>> alone of smartphone page impressions.  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> If we look at mobile traffic growth in terms of traffic (2010 report),
>> the top country in terms of growth is Sudan, with a 2466% increase in
>> traffic.  This is followed by Morocco (414%), Tunisia (369%), Ghana (287%),
>> Egypt (174%) and Nigeria (133%).  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Bottom line, your assertion that the use of mobile devices is restricted
>> to rich South African students seems to be rather… disputed by facts.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Multiple device mobile connectivity is here, it’s a reality, we need to
>> wake up to that fact and cater for it, and this is PARTICULARLY evident in
>> the youth category that represent the student base of the academic
>> institutions.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Andrew****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] *On
>> Behalf Of *Maina Noah
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 04, 2013 11:52 AM
>> *To:* Jackson Muthili
>> *Cc:* rpd
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] Academic IPv4 Allocation Policy Second
>> Draft (AFPUB-2013-GEN-001-DRAFT-02)****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> On 4 February 2013 11:05, Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ****
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Andrew Aston assumption apply to student from very rich family only in
>> SA. Even in SA student from 80% of economy not considered rich can not
>> afford 5 IP device.
>>
>> This policy does not represent reality of university outside SA.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Jackson, Indeed, which is why the community as a whole needs to be more
>> realistic with the reality on the ground at various universities hence my
>> argument which i based sorely on real facts from one Top university here
>> and i have note visited the other small university's yet of which the
>> situation could even be more negative. ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> I dont support it.****
>>
>>  I would support a 1:2 ratio as opposed to 1:5.   ****
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Maina Noah <mainanoa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3 February 2013 16:58, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello People
>> >>
>> > Hi Seun,
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el at lisse.na>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't have issues with my iPhone, iPad, iPad mini, Mac Book Air,
>> iMac,
>> >>> eeePC, Ubunto server(s) or BlackBerry,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Right, this students either studies and works and has a good paycheck
>> or his
>> > parents are doing very very well.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Here is a sample of one person's gears, just to emphasis that 1:5 is
>> being
>> >> modest ;)
>> >>
>> >
>> > I have been quietly thinking through the communities 1:5 argument, but
>> one
>> > little but very important factor is being left out. The fact that NOT
>> EVERY
>> > STUDENT CAN AFFORD TO BUT ALL THOSE TOYS. I went to University of Dar es
>> > salaam last week to just study the environment and internet usage at the
>> > campus as my curiosity stemmed from this very 1:5 argument, and guess
>> what,
>> > most students can;t even afford to own Laptops. Funny thing is the % of
>> > students who actually have the Steve Jobs toys are like 10% because
>> they can
>> > even afford them. The Private students only get School Fees from their
>> > parents and those on Government loans can hardly afford a personal
>> laptop.
>> > Most of them share laptops haaah. On the issue of phones, there are no
>> > campus wide wireless networks and thus most students with smartphones
>> are
>> > using 3G services from the Telecom companies.
>> >
>> > This is a case for one specific HEI in Tanzania and now how about the
>> rest
>> > of the continents and in other countries. Let us be realistic and stop
>> > assuming and basing our arguments on some few specific institutions and
>> rich
>> > students.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Cheers!
>> >
>> >
>> > My 2 cents,
>> >
>> > Maina
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > rpd mailing list
>> > rpd at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
>> >****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>
>
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-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,
Federal University Oye-Ekiti
web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
Mobile: +2348035233535
**alt email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng*
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