[AFRINIC-rpd] New Policy Proposal: Inter RIR IPv4 Address Transfers (AFPUB-2013-V4-001-DRAFT-01)

Wed Jan 16 18:22:05 UTC 2013

Hi Maina,

You read me wrong, I do not advocate at all for the selling of IP addresses.
I believe very strongly though that legacy space is outside of the RIR
structure, and legacy space holders are free to do whatever the hell they
like with their space.  Reality is, there is already a secondary market, it
exists, leasing, selling and buying of legacy space is happening.  Look at
the Microsoft / Nortel case, which was the start of it.

As I said, when it comes to non-legacy space, AfriNIC leases that space to
its members in the case of LIR's, they charge an annual fee for it in
addition to membership fee, if that is a cost recovery model or a profit
model, it doesn't change the fact that at its very base, it's a lease, you
are granted the right to use something in exchange for a financial fee.
ISP's in addition charge clients for additional address space *all the
time*, if you want more than X number of IP's, the ISP's ask for money, that
again, is a lease agreement even if it is disguised as something else.  The
economics of profit vs non-profit don't matter, it's the fact that a right
of use is being charged for at all.

I have major issues though when it comes to the ability of an LIR to lease
space to entities who are using it totally off this continent, if there is
to be space transfer off this continent, let it happen under the guise of a
proper RIR to RIR mechanism with proper policy.  That being said, the
community seems to have rejected that approach and I accept that, since
there has been an overwhelming voice that has said keep the space here.

As such, as I said, I do not support Chad's proposed policy.

Andrew

From: Maina Noah [mailto:mainanoa at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:15 PM
To: Andrew Alston
Cc: Sunday Folayan; tespok at tespok.co.ke; Ernest - (AfriNIC); AfriNIC
Resource Policy Discussion List
Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] New Policy Proposal: Inter RIR IPv4 Address
Transfers (AFPUB-2013-V4-001-DRAFT-01)

Andrew,

I hope you are not suggesting that we sell IP's nor should any LIR do the
same to its customers. AfriNIC members pay a membership fee so number
resources can be allocated to them for use in building the African Internet
and extending such services. I opposed the sale of IP's when we were in
Rabat in 2008 and i will still oppose it. If AfriNIC is getting doggy
applications, its their job to make sure they carry-out enough due-diligence
in such a case before allocation. Those who think they can hijac the
resources and sell outside Africa can as well forget it, which is why your
proposal in TZ was very unpopular ammongst the community.

Lets stick to the HEI proposal you and Sunday have drafted and we see how
that goes.

Peace..

Maina Noah

On 16 January 2013 17:22, Andrew Alston <alston.networks at gmail.com> wrote:

Aren't they? J

That's exactly what the LIR system is.  Here are some IP addresses, you pay
X amount per year to have them, and you get to give them to other people.
You don't own addresses.  If you're an LIR you're free to give them to your
customers (and charge your customers for those blocks) and hence lease them
out to your customers on the continent.

Same thing. the controversial nature of this proposal surrounds where the
addresses are being leased TO.

Have to say though, while initially I supported this proposal, having read
anything, I'm pretty convinced that this is the wrong way to go.  I still
believe that AfriNIC should be willing to participate in a mechanism to
allow excess addresses in the pool to be used off continent, via SOME means
or other, to avoid a situation where our space gets hijacked as the rest of
the world runs out, but that's another debate.  (Add to the fact that
information from within AfriNIC indicates that AfriNIC is already receiving
loads of applications of "dodgy" nature from companies that seem to want the
space off the continent, as I stated in Tanzania, we either use the space,
or the rest of the world is gonna take it, and there is nothing we can do
about it, we can however control HOW they take it and if we get something
outta it or not!)

Andrew

From: rpd-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:rpd-bounces at afrinic.net] On Behalf Of
Sunday Folayan
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:08 PM
To: tespok at tespok.co.ke
Cc: AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List; Ernest - (AfriNIC)
Subject: Re: [AFRINIC-rpd] New Policy Proposal: Inter RIR IPv4 Address
Transfers (AFPUB-2013-V4-001-DRAFT-01)

Fiona,

On 16/01/2013 12:04, Fiona Asonga wrote:

Hallo Chad

I hope the author of this proposal in on the list to respond since he has
been rather quiet.  I am still asking what is the goal of the proposal since
I think the proposal is kind of incomplete. What I would like to understand
is;... so as to enable, achieve or facilitate what........? 

Still wonder why? Even with McTim's post of 11-01-2013 which quoted is:

<BEGIN>
In addition, at  http://www.facebook.com/chad.abizeid, I found:

"Chad Abizeid
Please contact me at chad at logicweb.com / 877-564-4293 ext 79. I am
looking to see if your company may be interested in leasing over 250k
IP addresses (/14) from my company LogicWeb Inc (est 2004). Smaller
subnet leasing available as well. Thank you.
Like .  . October 10 at 5:45pm"
</END>

I wonder why AfriNIC is not into the leasing business ;)

Sunday.

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