[Community-Discuss] [rpd] Unaddressed queries by AFRINIC during AGMM

[Noah]

On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 11:57 AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:


>

>

> > On Jun 25, 2021, at 23:29 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>

> > My question to AFRINIC, do your resource members justification for IPv4

> needs, include that of running IPv4 Leasing?

>

> Virtually every LIR leases addresses in one form or another.

>


I do not know of any LIR that leases addresses. But I know of LIR's across
this continent who provide services such as *Direct Internet Access, MPLS
services, Transit Services, Hosting Services, DNS services *and in order
for the LIR to deliver the service to a wide range of downstream customers
in AFRICA, they assign an IPv4 address to enable communication via Open
Systems Network Protocols..... AFRINIC Bylaws section 3.4 subsection (i).

3.4) The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of
Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or
activity, including but not limited to the following objects:

   1. to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet
   resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system
   network protocols and to assist in the development and growth of the
   Internet in the African region;

And Another reading for your Owen... please refer to the link below...

https://www.afrinic.net/community/783-isplir-guidelines


   - Regarding the “cost” of IP addresses, AFRINIC informs the community
   that IP addresses are nobody’s property and cannot be sold as a commodity.
   We however do understand that some ISPs may charge some fee to offset any
   administrative overhead incurred as a result of assigning and managing IP
   addresses for their customers. We recommend that any such charges should be
   reasonable in comparison with the membership fees charged by AFRINIC.




> > Does AFRINIC have IPv4 brokers as resource members?

>

> Are you saying that an LIR who is also a broker is not entitled to

> membership for some reason?

>


Yes I am saying exactly that.... and again I will ask.

Do we have IPv4 brokers purporting to be an LIR (through membership) so
that they go about trading allocated IPv4 addresses for 30USD?  Was this
the Intention of those integers? to be traded as a commodity/product?
Because if that is the case, then how about all LIR just stop building
Internet infrastructure and we go about getting say 6 million IPv4
addresses from an RIR and slap 30USD and profit 1.8 billion on each address.




>

> > Because it seems to me that folk out here are arguing that IPv4 integers

> themselves are meant to be some product sold at 30USD.

>

> Whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not (and I’m not overly

> fond of it), the reality is that IP address registrations (not the

> addresses themselves, actually) are being bought and sold for ~30USD each

> every day all over the world.



The AFRINIC CPM in section 5.7 only refers to "IPv4 Resources transfer
within the AFRINIC Region".

There is no price tag and as such, I am not aware of the 30USD price in our
AFRINIC region.



> > My understanding was that the need for IPv4 was for the intergers to be

> used by the requester to number infrastructure for their networks/systems

> and their downstram customers/users so as to offer a wide range on

> services/products that Impact AFRICA's socio-economically and politically

> from, NREN, Higher Learning Institutions, Agriculture, ISP/Telecoms,

> Egovernment, FINTECH, SME's, Ecommerce (I know of unemployed youth

> leveraging the power of online platforms to forge a decent life and

> economically empower themselves through ecommorce, entertainment,

> influencers etc). The true digital transformation if you will.

> >

> > So I really need to understand what Paul is going on about to ascertain

> what I view as clear misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what AFRINIC

> is all about.

>

> Here’s where you lose me. I have tremendous difficulty connecting your

> mostly rational questions/statements above with this. Please point to the

> part of the bylaws,



https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws#b20-3

3.4) The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of
Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or
activity, including but not limited to the following objects:


   1. to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet
   resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system
   network protocols and to assist in the *development and growth of the
   Internet in the African region*


See the  BOLD line that talks about development and growth of the Internet
in the African region....

         iii. to *promote* responsible management of Internet resources
throughout the African region, as well as the *responsible development and
        operation of Internet infrastructures;   *

See the BOLD line that refers to the operation of Internet Infrastructure
.....


RSA, or CPM that constrains number usage to things which impact AFRICA

> socio-economically or politically.



Is it safe to say that growth of Internet in the AFRICAN region and the
operation of Internet Infrastructure in the AFRICAN region, has led to
African Governments to launch eGovernment Internet based platforms that
have led to better efficiency and management of public funds for instance
through the Government Mobile Money Payment Systems.(political). Tourists
today can apply for a travel VISA and pay online or via Mobile Money
through an online Department of Immigration Platform thereby improving
government efficiency.

Is it safe to say, because some of us took some BGP lessons from folks like
APB, PFS, MT, NG, Pokui, through AFNOG, that we are leading a decent life
and taking care of our families today, just like any other Internet or
Systems, Software Engineers on this continent because of the Internet which
has provided a lot of folks with employment.... (economics).

Is it safe to say that, folks out here, from artists posting creative
content on platforms, to ecommerce merchants on for instance Instagram, to
motorbike taxi apps (safeboda), to students studying online through edtech
platforms, to subsistence farmers in rural Africa whose lives are being
transformed through the smartphone, the Internet and mobile money, to
research and education networks, to the fintech etc.... to cut the story
short.



> I don’t recall seeing either of those terms in any of the three documents.

> It’s certainly not contained in section 6 of the bylaws.

>


Folks, who got what I meant, understood but I guess I have made my point
above.

You will never get it Owen.

Cheers,
Noah
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20210628/b7e8e949/attachment.html>